[freewestpapua]

> The people who originally settled in the Malay Archipelago several thousands years ago were successful maritime explorers.

That comment upset me as a Melanesian. I'm sorry, but I need to challenge the above statement as it is factually incorrect. What you are claiming is widely spread in a politicized way in Malaysia and Indonesia, and in a similar but different context in Thailand and Phillipines. Firstly, I'm sure you know that the actual original first peoples (called as "orang asli negrito" or "sakai" (derogatory) by "Malay" settlers) are Melanesian/Negrito/Aboriginal tribes. Again, Malay settlers are not the the 'people who originally settled' as you claimed, they took the land from Melanesians. To be precise, the original people are MT Haplogroup P, MT Haplogroup M/sub-R, Y Haplogroup K/F. They have predominantly jet black skin and curly hair or straight hair in the case of some Aboriginal tribes in Australia. These are the genuine first peoples. They were in South and South East Asia, Papua and Australia first prior to the Toba eruption 70ka ago. Today, they have been mostly genocided by 'Malay' (sometimes used to cloud the term Austronesian term) settler populations. You can see this process happening even today in West Papua where 'Malay' soldiers and settlers brought over from Java, Indonesia are genociding Melanesian men in West Papua and taking over their land. The indigenous Melanesians are now a minority in their own land. There's brutal horific videos you can find online of Javanese settlers attacking and skinning a Melanesian man alive inside an oil drum. Truly barbaric stuff. It is a slow genocide but you don't hear much about it, probably because the mines of Freeport McMoran and Grassburg supply a huge chunk of the copper/gold that's key for EV and other modern technologies. That's as much time as I can spend on communicating this right now. I hope this information will help you and others correct your misunderstanding and stop spreading such disingenous claims intended to enable land grab by settlers. Thank you.

[teleforce]

Naturally they inter-married, the first wave from out of Africa people (e.g Perak man) and the second wave from the Taiwan diaspora [1]. This as you probably know happened over many thousands of years.

The word one to ten in most Austronesian countries from Madagascar to Hawaii, spanning more than 17,000 km or 10,000 miles (about half of earth's perimeter of 40,000 km). These countries main languages including Malagasy, Malay, Indonesian, Javanese, Tagalog, Sulu, Palau (Micronesia), NZ Maori, Hawaii (Polynesia), etc are very similar. In particular, "Lima" meaning five/hand is the common and signature Malay/Austronesian world, even in Hawaii.

Based on your throw away name, most probably you're from Papua Island, you probably know that one of its original main languages, apart from the recent colonial based Tok Pisin, is the Malay Austronesian based Hiri Motu [2].

>Today, they have been mostly genocided by 'Malay' (sometimes used to cloud the term Austronesian term) settler populations.

What nonsense, as they said the proof is in the pudding. If genocide happened as you claimed most of these people are gone but they're everywhere. Please check Borneo Island for example, ruled by the Malay Brunei Kingdom for several centuries until the colonial Brooke the White Rajah came. This third largest Island in the world probably has the most diverse demographic population of indigenous peoples in the world [3].

Fun facts, as comparison the Champa Malay people were genocided by the Vietnamese warlords mainly by the Nguyen lords. They controlled majority of Vietnam for about two thousands years but now you hardly find this Champa Malay people, similar to what happened in muslim in Spain. The highly contested South Chinese Sea original name was Champa Sea [4].

>I hope this information will help you and others correct your misunderstanding and stop spreading such disingenous claims intended to enable land grab by settlers.

Since we are in the Singapore topic, by your own definition of land grab by settlers, the Chinese immigrants where the first PM LKY are from, that constitute majority of Singaporean were performing land grab by settlers because just 200 years ago majority were Malay?

[1] Asia’s secret World Heritage site:

https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20160518-malaysias-11000-...

[2] Hiri Motu:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiri_Motu

[3] Borneo:Demographics:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borneo#Demographics

[4] The Cham: Descendants of Ancient Rulers of South China Sea Watch Maritime Dispute From Sidelines:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/140616-so...

[freewestpapua]

> Naturally they inter-married,

Earlier you claimed 'originally settled by Malays' now you're saying Malays inter-married with the actual indigenous population. That's like saying European Americans inter-married with actual native population and therefore European Americans are now the first peoples in America. I'm unsure if it is worth discussing further with someone that would manipulate facts in this way.

I'll also ask you to google about Y-haplogroup and MT-haplogroup statistics to see how it shows the disappearance of male Melanesian contribution to the population in Phillipines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand. Countries like Malaysia and Indonesia had official policies even going on today where indigenous Melanesian women were targeted to be impregnated by settler 'Malay Muslim' men. For example:

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2006/06/27/incentives... 'Kelantan will offer RM10,000 to each Muslim preacher who marries an orang asli woman and naturally converts her'

I noticed you refused to address what is happening in West Papua.

Sadly, I think our conversation can't really continue effectively since you're starting to bring in unrelated topics like Spain and then you started talking about 'land grab by Chinese immigrants in Singapore' which is unrelated to the claims you originally made. Again, I sought to correct your statement claiming 'originally settled by Malays' which I notice you've now softened to 'Malays intermarried with the actual indigenous people'. I think that's the extent of the possible communication with you.

[teleforce]

>Earlier you claimed 'originally settled by Malays' now you're saying Malays inter-married with the actual indigenous population.

I said what you have quoted of me previously:

"The people who originally settled in the Malay Archipelago several thousands years ago were successful maritime explorers."

>you started talking about 'land grab by Chinese immigrants in Singapore' which is unrelated to the claims you originally made.

Please check your own comments regarding land grab (see below), that's why I asked you about that, I didn't mentioned about land grab earlier but you did. But since you have mentioned it yourself in the comments that's why I asked your opinion because we are in Singapore OP topic. If you do not want to answer the question that's fine with me, however personally I think it's very much relevant to the topic at hand.

>>I hope this information will help you and others correct your misunderstanding and stop spreading such disingenous claims intended to enable land grab by settlers.

[freewestpapua]

> "The people who originally settled in the Malay Archipelago several thousands years ago were successful maritime explorers."

You are again attempting to claim that 'Malays' or perhaps you're trying to imply 'Austronesians' are the first people to populate Phillipines, Malaysia, Indonesia, Papua. I think it isn't possible to have a useful conversation if you are repeating that falsehood. That's the exact equivalent of claiming 'the people who who originally settled the Americas were succesful maritime explorers' in an attempt to convince everyone that Europeans and Native Americans are now the same thing.

I have to remind you again since you refuse to acknowledge the issue. What is happening in West Papua is horrific. It is what 'Malays'/Austronesians have done repeatedly (to different extents) throughout South East Asia and Oceania and the world has let it happen because Melanesian lives don't even make the front page when one of us got skinned alive by 'Malay' settlers. [1]

[1] https://www.hrw.org/the-day-in-human-rights/2024/04/02

[teleforce]

> What is happening in West Papua is horrific

I'm not sure what happened in West Papua but need to check that out, but what happened in Champa to Cham Malay people is even worst, they totally lost their country they resided for thousands of years to the north Vietnamese people, and being displaced to other countries like Malaysia, Cambodia, Thailand, etc while only very small minority still in Vietnam.

>You are again attempting to claim that 'Malays' or perhaps you're trying to imply 'Austronesians' are the first people to populate Phillipines, Malaysia, Indonesia, Papua. I think it isn't possible to have a useful conversation if you are repeating that falsehood.

IMHO, it's quite easy to settle this deadlock, get the original people of Hawaii Polynesia and Palau Micronesia for examples, to be properly tested on genetic ancestorial tracing to check whether they are partly decendent of the Perak Man community who originally settled in Malay Archipelago. As I've mentioned to you it's most probably inter-married but until then we can only guess.

[defrost]

> I'm not sure what happened in West Papua

  “In 1969, in an event referred to by Indonesia as the ‘Act of Free Choice’ (Perpera), 1,022 delegates appointed by the Indonesian government to represent all the people of Irian Jaya "voted' to become formally part of the Indonesian Republic”

Here "Free Choice" equates to under threat of death and torture to individuals and their family members. What followed was a UN sanctioned brutal boot on neck resource grab by the Javanese on behalf of western resource companies.

https://awpaadelaide.com/ likely has more details, as would wikipedia etc.