[embedding-shape]

First off, to have conflicting feelings about something is really normal and doesn't immediately point to a problem, it's extremely human, and I feel similar to you to. I'm a creative + programmer, I hate to see what's happening in some communities yet I too use agents for development, it'd be like avoiding Google + SO when they first appeared, feels like there is a clear "before/after" moments with those, and with LLMs as well.

I don't really have anything useful to add here, I think, just that you aren't alone in feeling conflicting feelings here. New things usually are like that, comes with incredible benefits in some areas yet seem to strip humanity away from others, some people use it to produce fluff and crap, others essentially gain new abilities and use those to build even better stuff. I don't think there is any universal truths here, sadly.

[vasco]

We can also take some refuge in things like steam engines or electricity or the internet and how if you're just on the cusp of those you'd have similar feelings, but many years later here we are, still with jobs and meaning. A lot of people say this time is different but I guess when electricy showed up people would've said the same? I certainly remember people predicting that Manhattan would stop existing during the dotcom bubble because the internet would kill all street level businesses and people would work from wherever so big cities were over. And here we are.

I'm also conflicted but take a glass half full approach basing myself on the fact that when I'm feeling like "this time is different" it's probably my ego wanting my lifetime to happen at an interesting time in history, so my brain wants the current events to be the most transformative.

[fc417fc802]

> A lot of people say this time is different but I guess when electricy showed up people would've said the same?

No. Electricity didn't raise the skill floor all that much. Certainly nowhere near the human skill ceiling.

> the internet would kill all street level businesses

That was never going to happen overnight, if at all. But online retail (and food delivery, etc) does seem to be slowly but surely eating away at local shops so I think it's within the realm of possibility.

[robinsonb5]

> But online retail (and food delivery, etc) does seem to be slowly but surely eating away at local shops so I think it's within the realm of possibility.

Online retail eating away at local shops is a problem with two aspects - one of which is largely ignored and much more pernicious.

Yes, many people are shopping online which reduces footfall in the town centres. If this were a case of all the existing businesses simply shifting away from physical storefronts to virtual ones it would merely be unfortunate.

What's far worse is that the vast majority of the business that shifted away from a diverse collection of bricks-and-mortar stores now goes through one of a very few online retail giants.

Likewise, a couple of food delivery apps are parasitising takeaway food businesses.

And now we're allowing a handful of AI giants to tollbooth software development.

[marknutter]

> That was never going to happen overnight, if at all.

Very easy to say that in hindsight.

[fc417fc802]

It was trivially predictable the entire time, just like it's trivial predictable that advances in robotics can only replace human labor at a rate that takes the necessary capital expenditure and associated manufacturing capacity into account. On top of the basic reality of logistics and infrastructure, the sears catalog provided a practical example that long predated the dotcom era.

[mplanchard]

It certainly didn’t kill Manhattan, but it did kill or at least seriously maim lots of small towns. We lost a lot of local culture in the switch to everything being available online. I’m not sure we’re better off.

[iaaan]

I, very genuinely, highly recommend reading the Wikipedia page about the Luddites if you feel confused. This is a class consciousness problem. People feel conflicted because they know they aren't acting in their own best interests when they use generative AI (i.e. it does not lead us, as a society, to a good place -- mainly due to our bought-out legislature).

[embedding-shape]

Again, I don't think there is any universal truths here, no correct nor incorrect answers, it's all very subjective. For example, I'm conflicted about the thing as a whole, but also I wouldn't say "Usage of generative AI for sure leads society to a worse place" like you just implied, that's too absolute for me and not something I'd agree with, and it wouldn't resolve the conflicts we're talking about here.

Maybe your legislative feels bought out, that sucks, but that's not the situation nor the feeling everywhere in the world, certainly not where I live, so also doesn't seem to be related although if I assume where you live, I totally understand why you're currently feeling like that.

[fc417fc802]

> that's not the situation nor the feeling everywhere in the world, certainly not where I live

Do you expect your government to navigate whatever transition might await us in a manner that works out well for the vast majority of your countrymen? What about the governments of other major world powers? Even if your local government does all the right things, will the world as a whole end up in a good place?

That said, I'm not sure that there's much in the way of actionable options, at least not with clearly defined outcomes.

[embedding-shape]

> Do you expect your government to navigate whatever transition might await us in a manner that works out well for the vast majority of your countrymen?

No, but I expect them to do the best they can, with the information they have available, as always, as they just like me, are just humans. Trusting the legislative branch of my government is different from "so you think it'll work out well for everyone then huh?", btw.

> What about the governments of other major world powers?

Why does it matter how much I trust the legislative branch from other countries? They do as they wish, we continue to do as we wish.

> Even if your local government does all the right things, will the world as a whole end up in a good place?

My experience and opinion is that generally the world is getting better almost every day, vast difference even compared to ten years ago, how much better the world is today, for most people. There are some few countries which lately been going in the wrong direction, but for the most part, we (humanity) are getting incrementally better.

[fc417fc802]

> Trusting the legislative branch of my government is different from "so you think it'll work out well for everyone then huh?", btw.

Agreed, and that was exactly my point. Concern about possible impacts of a technology were expressed and you responded that you trust your government. But that's not the same as thinking that everything is headed in a good direction and doesn't require intervention.

> Why does it matter how much I trust the legislative branch from other countries?

Because in a globalized world if everyone else goes to shit you will probably also experience significant negative effects even if it's not as bad.

> for the most part, we (humanity) are getting incrementally better.

It seems to me that it's prudent to perform a risk assessment rather than assuming that everything will work out just because things seem to have been going well enough so far.

[embedding-shape]

I feel like you're trying to move this conversation in a direction of discussing policy, while the context are individuals, their emotions and how they feel about things, that's how the conversation started. I never talked about how much I trust/distrust my government, all I said was that I trust the legislative branch, as parent commentator said they didn't trust their legislative branch. How much I distrust/trust my government at large is hardly on topic here, I also don't think because one (large) country been bought out, doesn't mean the entire world goes to shit, nor do I assume that everything everywhere will work out simply because I'm admitting that I too am conflicted, even though I too use AI-tooling, even though I'm a creative that like manual crafted things, even though I trust the legislative branch of my government.