[abdullahkhalids]

I will bet that the number of adults who ever engage in coloring or painting as adults is extremely small. Probably less than the number of full time scientists, engineers, finance professionals etc. Yet no one complains that we are forcing students to do art in school, even when many students don't particularly like doing art. Why? Because we recognize that developing general artistic ability in humans is important, so we need art classes.

The other argument about teaching "advanced math" is the same as why Cristiano Ronaldo spends a significant part of his training in the gym lifting weights? Ever seen Ronaldo take out a barbell and start doing squats during a game? One should reflect on this.

[WarmWash]

Math is a tool for solving problems, and people will do work to create value that they will share with you for helping them solve a problem which will ultimately create even more value.

In short, math is a powerhouse tool for carrying society forward.

Art, while cool to look at and experience, has a pretty low efficacy in terms of "motivating people to do work, or removing obstacles, to carry society forward"

In short, starving artists.

There is also the whole thing where art is an abstract concept with a subjective definition, and a solar cell sporting new tech with 33% efficiency objectively being better than one with 24% efficiency.

[abdullahkhalids]

I cannot support such thinking. Art is foundational to human experience. People crave that their free time is filled with good food, good music, good books, good movies and shows in beautiful houses with beautiful gardens. All of these are various forms of art.

There were humans for tens of thousands of years before there was high technology. But there were hardly any humans around before there was art.

[bawolff]

> Art, while cool to look at and experience, has a pretty low efficacy in terms of "motivating people to do work, or removing obstacles, to carry society forward"

Idk, the soviets didn't invest in socialist realism propaganda for nothing.

Less sarcastically, art has had an outsized influence on society and culture. Take any social movement you want, and there was probably some novel or work of art that galvanized it.

[WarmWash]

My argument isn't that art doesn't have an impact, my argument is that the artists to impact ratio is insane.

10,000 artists in, one $20k work of art out.

Whereas something like the engineer is closer to

5 engineers in, $500k of work out (and even that is pretty conservative)

[bruce511]

Firstly, measuring art in $ terms ignores the benefits that extend way beyond $ terms. Most fine art produced has a value approaching 0. My wife and I buy art from time to time, but we've never spent more than about $100 or so, yet get disproportionate pleasure from it.

As a first order approximation the "price" of art (as distinct from its value) is a function of branding not asthetics.

Secondly most artists get paid, not from doing fine art, but from adjacent careers that require good color, balance, composition, and so on. Industrial designers (think Jonny Ive), interior design, food presentation, magazine layout, web design, architecture and so on. Art skills are all around us. In the same way engineering is around us.

Put another way, engineers build ugly (think beige PC boxes). It took an artist to give us the iMac. And it was a marketing genius (yet another important skillset) to bring the artist and engineer together.

Teaching math goes far beyond creating mathematicians. Teaching art goes far beyond teaching artists. Societies that drop art because it is unproductive get ugliness permeating everywhere.

[bawolff]

I'm not sure i agree witb the ratio. I think its much more lopsided. E.g. 100,000 artists in, one trillion dollar work of art out. (I'm counting indirect value. e.g. All the people who read Dune or a silent spring and become environmentalists as a result should have their value attributed to that work of art)

Also i'd point out the selection bias of not counting people who fail out of engineering school but still counting every unsuccessful artist.

[vkazanov]

I have this inner model of something i call "the rock star economics": many people want to do music but only one becomes a rock star and makes serious money. But he gets so much attention that many more people want to become rock stars.

Applies to art, fashion, media.

Most practical (including engineering) successes are much less externally attractive but do make decent money for everybody involved.

[williamoforange]

I know this is going to seem reductive, but especially with young children we teach art due to the value it gives them as individuals developing. Not for the GDP or individual fiscal benefit.

Further, judging the value of art to society by how much it costs is ridiculous and an asinine comparison.

[servo_sausage]

Art class as part of public education is not completely uncontrovertial.

It grew out of a time where basic artistic skills were expensive to learn, and could be a real class differentiator (and had some employment benefits).

That's now a fair bit less true; but still continues to prevent these things becoming the sole domain of private schools.

[ghaff]

Never had art in school.

Did do writing although a lot was extracurricular.