[observationist]

So is it bad that governments don't allow the processes and manufacturing to take place in their own countries, allowing independence and market dynamics and economies of scale to result in yet another order of magnitude cost reduction in solar? Or is it good that China doesn't do ecological protections, worker protections, or the things that western countries do, so we get to profit from the exploitation and pollution of their people and land?

It'd sure be awesome if regulations and regulators in Western countries weren't stupid. This whole game is just insane.

Let's just pawn it of on China, arbitrage the regulatory and human rights differential, and pretend the value is the same as if it's locally manufactured. Then we pocket the difference! Number go up!

[ben_w]

Economists have this thing called "comparative advantage".

E.g. the US specialises in software; China in PV and batteries; EU in industrial equipment; the Middle East, oil; Australia IIRC is minerals; each trades what they're optimised for in exchange for what the others are optimised for, and are better off for it.

This works only so long as nobody is dominating a strategic sector, something that everyone needs but they are such a major player they get to set the prices. Monopolistic behaviour, but from a nation that cannot be sued for it rather than a corporation which can be ordered broken up.

Unfortunately, OPEC was already a thing even before Hormuz, the MAGA tariffs are confused and seem to be trying to make the US into an autarky but also keeping trade open so it can be taxed, and China seems to want to be dependent on nobody else while also keeping everyone else dependent on them, which currently leaves the EU and similar currently holding this particular hot potato and goodness only knows in which direction and on what schedule we'll yeet it elsewhere.

[gozucito]

>China in PV and batteries; EU in industrial equipment; the Middle East, oil; Australia IIRC is minerals

What about Africa and the rest of Asia? Surely they merit mention more than Australia?

Also, Australia's number one export are Hollywood actors.

[ben_w]

> What about Africa and the rest of Asia? Surely they merit mention more than Australia?

This isn't a term paper, I'm just giving illustrations from a handful of places to demonstrate how comparative advantage works.

And sure, other Asian nations are significant (India: Petroleum; Japan: Cars; South Korea: Integrated circuits; Taiwan's defence policy is making TSMC too important to be allowed to be invaded).

But Africa? No. The continent's exports are mostly dominated by South Africa, which is about one third of Australia's; even in aggregate, the entire continent's exports are only at about the level of Canada's.

> Also, Australia's number one export are Hollywood actors.

Australia's three largest exports are iron ore, coal, and education: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exports_of_Australia

[feb012025]

I think your impression of China is outdated by about a decade

[analognoise]

Trump cancelled a ton of green energy initiatives, why are we blaming the same regulators you imply are a good thing by pointing out that China "doesn't do ecological protections"?