[ozim]

So AI also thinks people somehow get away only with ORM without understanding SQL?

Funny thing is, that is always argument of „anti ORM” people.

I yet have to see someone actually argue that you don’t need to understand SQL and ORM will suffice in the wild. Then also find devs who can’t do a simple join as joins and index usage is not some black magic and is still required to use ORM properly.

[RegW]

> I yet have to see someone actually argue that you don’t need to understand SQL and ORM will suffice

Well that's because decades of bitter experience has told us all that object graphs rarely map cleanly to sets of relationships.

However, I do think that must have been the original idea as tools such as Hibernate tried so hard to obscure the underlying SQL and database. As a result all Hibernate objects have their own particular identity requirements which only made sense to a developer that knows what's going on under the hood.

[ozim]

I would still like some kind of proof.

Like an early article having headline "ORM will replace SQL knowledge".

I am professional dev for 15 years and hobbyist for 20 years and I might have missed something. But only thing I do remember was "anti ORM" people nagging how "one should really know SQL" - where I never heard anyone saying "don't learn SQL" maybe only NoSQL hype... but no one else.

[laughing_man]

I worked with people who argued that exact point and considered SQL outdated now that everything could be done with ORM.