[estearum]

You've lost the thread.

Here's your original claim: "no guild ever let a vendor pick and choose what their capabilities were"

A carpenter's guild can prevent other people from doing carpentry. That is not what's being discussed here.

A carpenter's guild cannot force a horseshoe maker to begin making hammers. That is what's being discussed.

Your initial claim was analogous to "never before has a horseshoe maker been able to decline making hammers when the carpenter's guild needed hammers"

Obviously they have and any other state of affairs would be flatly insane.

[lazide]

That is not my example at all, if we’re talking coding agents eh?

[estearum]

Your claim was that guilds have never allowed vendors to tell them what they're allowed to do.

That would imply that guilds have always had the ability to force vendors to create and sell the tools the guilds wanted.

That would imply that carpenters' guilds could force horseshoe manufacturers to make hammers.

That is obviously not true, therefore your original claim is false.

It's not true for carpenters and hammers nor for cybersecurity researchers and LLMs.

[lazide]

Bwahaha. You’re really reaching there.

A vendor can still do something, even if the guild wouldn’t allow them to do it, if the guild didn’t have the power to stop them.

It used to be a guild vs a blacksmith (or the blacksmiths guild). Now it’s trillion dollar corps against smaller islands of un-organized individuals.

That’s new regardless of how you try to argue it.

[estearum]

> basic deductive logic

> "Bwahaha. You’re really reaching there."

No. Customers have never been able to compel their suppliers to make or sell certain products against their will (except in collectivist regimes or like 0.00001% of natsec related instances)

[lazide]

This conversation gets more and more bizarre, but I’ll bite.

1) pharmaceutical companies are regularly compelled to produce specific pharmaceuticals to continue to be allowed to exist.

2) hospitals are regularly compelled to treat patients even if they can’t afford treatment, if it is a life threatening emergency.

3) car manufacturers are always compelled to produce vehicles that meet a litany of safety, weight, and efficiency standards or they can’t produce at all.

4) defense contractors are regularly compelled to produce specific defense related products for long periods of time after they would otherwise have stopped, or else.

5) even your neighborhood gas station is likely compelled to provide air refills, free or at minimal cost, or else.

6) during a wartime (command) economy, which has happened numerous times in the US alone in the last 100 years, companies have to make what their customers (the people of the United States) demand or else.

7) utilities like electric utilities regularly have to give out freebies or take losses on things as demanded by regulators, at customers behest.

Or if we go back a bit, blacksmiths, quarries, masons, etc. all had to deal with producing what the government/lord at the time wanted - often on penalty of death - during wartime, or just because they were ordered to do so.

Seriously, what are you going on about?

[estearum]

1) Not by their customers they're not, lol

2) Not by their customers they're not, lol

3) Not by their customers they're not, lol

4) The US government can compel production, but it's extremely rare

5) Not by their customers they're not, lol

6) Yep this can happen, but is extremely unusual

7) Not by their customers they're not, lol

We're illustrating how ridiculous your claim that "guilds have always been able to declare what vendors create for them" is

Now you're talking about government regulations for some reason. Even your examples of customers being able to compel production are actually examples of governments being able to compel production, and in just a few of these scenarios the government is the customer. But it's their power as governments, not their power as customers that can compel production.

As stated: you've lost the thread. You're talking about totally irrelevant stuff.