[bluefirebrand]

> 25k saved per year is a million after twenty years with a modest very conservative amount.

Close to 25% of people in America only make 25k a year. Forget saving that much

You are wildly out of touch with the average person and their struggles to think that 25k saved per year is even remotely achievable for most people

[hparadiz]

I dunno why people keep bringing this up as some sort of gotcha. You don't save for retirement based on your average. You do it during your peak earning years. Which are far above average. And most households have more than one earner. So even a 5% savings based on a median 84k household yields over 750k in 20 years.

Like it literally is that simple.

[bluefirebrand]

The number I am finding for the median household expenses for America is $67,000 annually. That's just essentials, housing, food, transportation, insurance, healthcare

So if your median household makes 84k, and your median household spends 67k on necessities, where is the money coming from for saving 5%? The difference is only 17k

It doesn't take much to eat up 17k. A car repair, house repair, or hospital stay (in America at least) will easily reduce that to zero or negatives

So I dunno man. It doesn't seem that simple.

Edit: and keep in mind that median does mean that a pretty large proportion of people make less than that number too. Sometimes significantly less

[hparadiz]

Presumably the 67k spend contains the car repair, house repair, hospital stay part you mentioned. Everything you're saying is accounted for. Your argument is basically anti social security. I'm saying make your own social security fund and you keep going "and what about" as if that's an argument. These externalities are literally what the fund is for. And frankly you should have an HSA for medical expenses because it lets you spend pre-tax money on that stuff.

When you do non Roth it's pre-tax cash so it's much easier to run up your net worth because it's based on money that you haven't paid taxes on yet.

[bluefirebrand]

> Presumably the 67k spend contains the car repair, house repair, hospital stay part you mentioned. Everything you're saying is accounted for

It explicitly is not. The number I am quoting is for essentials, it does not factor in emergencies

> I'm saying make your own social security fund

I'm saying many people can't realistically afford to, so expecting it is absolutely ridiculous

[hparadiz]

$5583 a month is essentials? This is more than what I spend on my mortgage..... and all my bills.... and all my food.... and I live in SoCal.

This conversation is dumb. Put money into an IRA. You lower your taxable income. It's not that hard. You grow your net worth on your untaxed monies and then later when shit hits the fan you can extract it at a lower tax bracket. And you get to gain market gains on cash that would otherwise be spent on taxes. It's how people who are good with money make an extra 10-15k per year while you're being all like "woe is me. i can't afford anything".

This is how you can cover that $10-15k you mention when it does happen. You're welcome.

[bluefirebrand]

> $5583 a month is essentials? This is more than what I spend on my mortgage..... and all my bills.... and all my food.... and I live in SoCal

Is there anything that other households might spend money on that you don't?

Say for instance childcare, or having a second vehicle for a spouse, groceries for a family with children

Your post is pretty light on details about your actual household situation

Personally I don't think $5583 for a family of four (for instance) sounds that outrageous

[robocat]

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