[_DeadFred_]

If your product has no value without access by your company/you agents of someone elses work, you are a derivative work. The value of your product has at least in part been derived from other's copyrighted work.

The fact that these companies don't just remove copyrighted work from their product creation chain shows that they feel they are deriving value from the copyrighted works that they wouldn't have if they didn't use copyrighted works.

[csallen]

"Deriving value" from what came before doesn't mean that what came before is owed some sort of check. And thank god, or the world would be a horrible place full of rent seekers.

[_DeadFred_]

As I stated specifically "If your product has no value without access by your company/you agents of someone elses work"

If THE PRODUCT (not the creators) requires access to someone else's work, to generate it's value it is derivative.'

This is actual law, with actual thought put into it, created over 300 years and is a huge part of what has created the modern world. No one can tell me why this thinking should be suddenly thrown out in a reasoned way that again, addresses the 300 years of things that has gone into this.