[tw04]

But it’s not just ideological. The facts are, even with great strides in efficiency, datacenters use a TON of water and electricity. And without fail that results in increased prices for the local communities who see almost no benefit from these datacenters.

Ironically the very same people profiting most off of them are the ones saying they’re going to leave the country if they’re forced to pay anything resembling a fair tax rate. They’re always all about socializing costs and privatizing profits and the common folks are finally waking up to it.

[jeffbee]

Data centers use very little water, right down to none if they want. And state-of-the-art hyperscale data centers really are operated by AIs.

[201984]

This is false. Evaporative cooling systems consume significant amounts of water and do not reuse it. They can't anyway, recondensing the water would release all the heat they removed by evaporating it.

[jeffbee]

You don't have to evaporatively cool a data center. You can make a direct trade between energy efficiency and water consumption.

[201984]

You don't HAVE to, but most of the big ones do.

[mrexroad]

You don’t have to but in hotter climates, especially those with higher energy costs (ca), it’s a lot cheaper to cool evaporatively.

[konmok]

Source on that water claim? Everything I've seen suggests the opposite.

[jeffbee]

Most people who believe that data centers use a lot of water aren't mislead about how much water data centers use, but they are unaware of how much water everything else uses. In the great scheme of things data centers simply do not evaporate that much water. They are too small and too few. As a comparative example, all the data centers in Arizona combined use less than 1/50th of the water evaporated by Arizona's own thermal power stations. Or, to choose another benchmark, the evapotranspiration of the rice crop in California is more than 250x the water used by data centers in California.

[Uncle_Brumpus]

I think also to a degree, even if someone knows those other water use figures, it's easy to see an intrinsic value to the community from those sources. Many people do not see much value in pushing AI to such a degree where all this new compute is required, and others see a negative impact from this activity. It's much easier to argue against something you feel is wrong or bad than something that is arguably crucial for day-to-day life like electricity and staple crops.

[jeffbee]

Of course. The American consumer is the greatest hypocrite of all time. Their cars, fuel, airline travel, hamburgers, and paper goods are beyond reproach. Your matrix multiplication is an abomination.

[tekla]

You believe lies, 99% of data shows that data centers do not use appreciable amounts of water compared to almond farms, or gold courses, or bog standard lawns.

https://tech.yahoo.com/science/articles/data-centers-less-wa...

[konmok]

That source says data centers use a lot of water. Less than all almond farms combined, sure, but it doesn't support the parent argument. It's also 3 years out of date, and not relevant to protests against all the data centers that have not yet been completed.

[tekla]

Present your own data

[Silamoth]

You say that like environmentalists support those things. We don’t. We regularly criticize golf courses as a waste of water and land. We regularly call out the water waste and ecosystem impact of manicured, uniform lawns.

[tunesmith]

compared to almond farms? You phrase that as if almond farms use a reasonable amount of water.

[tekla]

Present your own data

[LevGoldstein]

Not OP, but here's a link from one of the previous times this was discussed.

https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/01/almonds-nuts...

Almond farming uses massive amounts of water, which has caused environmental impact concerns in the past.

[palmotea]

> Data centers use very little water, right down to none if they want. And state-of-the-art hyperscale data centers really are operated by AIs.

There are many, many reasons to oppose datacenters. Not the least is they're there to drive inequality to ever-greater heights and they're 21st century version of the toxic waste dump (put 'em where people are weak and marginalized).

But water use is a very simple argument, and sometimes you have to pound on those to get through to the general public that's not immediately affected.

[bpodgursky]

Sorry but no, you don't get to lie just because your arguments don't resonate with the public. That makes you a bad person.

[palmotea]

> Sorry but no, you don't get to lie just because your arguments don't resonate with the public. That makes you a bad person.

You misunderstand: data centers usually do use a lot of water, and I think the lie is "data centers use very little water." I believe it's possible for them to use little, but that's a choice that costs money. What I mean was instead of arguing the nuances of cooling or a particular project (which probably keeps all the details secret anyway), it makes sense to simplify and emphasize the water use angle.

[Our_Benefactors]

> datacenters use a TON of water and electricity

We have a shortage of neither.

[mc32]

Things would go over better with communities if they had assurances with regard to local impact and if those were violated they’d have recourse. Also would help if they provided some token compensation (like the Alaska fund). It wouldn’t be much but it’d be something and most people would probably take that.

[Our_Benefactors]

This is give an inch take a mile type thinking. The arguments against data centers are based in emotion not reason, so it’s effectively a fools errand to try and placate them.

[konmok]

Who is "we"?? Some places do have water shortages. And regardless of whether the power goes out or not, more power consumption = higher prices + more pollution.

[Our_Benefactors]

We the people.

In places where there are significant water shortages, water hungry data centers are not being built.

[konmok]

Incorrect. Seems like you haven't really investigated this topic at all.

https://www.newsweek.com/map-data-centers-built-drought-hit-...

[Silamoth]

Much of the US is in a drought. While we can generate plenty of electricity, doing so with outdated fossils fuels and ‘natural gases’ introduces a lot of pollution that harms people and the environment. We need to be careful about making these decisions.

But that’s really the problem - “we” don’t get any say in these decisions. A bunch of corrupt politicians and rich oligarchs make these decisions that screw over the rest of us.

And yes, for the record, I’m not uniquely against “AI” data centers. I’m opposed to a lot of other environmentally harmful and wasteful developments. They don’t get hyped up like “AI” does, though.