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by thijson 14 days ago
Price should send a signal to manufacturers to build more capacity. I wonder if they will though, it takes quite a bit of time, and it's not certain that the demand will continue to exist once built.
6 comments

Several Chinese manufacturers are doing just that, and have already expanded production: https://techwireasia.com/2026/04/chinese-memory-chips-ymtc-c... But because of tech trade barriers their primary focus is on the domestic market and only secondarily global markets.
Fortunately RAM is largely a commodity and more for sale only in China means more for sale elsewhere.
A fab for high end memory costs $20B and 5 years to build.

It will happen, but yeah it takes time and money

It will only happen if the bottom doesn't fall out of the market for AI datacenters in the next few months.
It's coming up on a year since the crisis started and at every single point it's been "next few months"
Well, that's the thing about a bubble: it can be very possible to accurately tell it's a bubble—and the definition of a bubble is that it's going to pop—without being able to tell just when it will pop.

And given how much of stock prices these days is purely dependent on stock traders believing they'll be able to sell those stocks on to some Greater Fool later, rather than based on the reality of the company the stock is about...well, they can keep the ball in the air for quite a while.

Personally, I suspect that the primary trigger for the big selloff is going to be the upcoming IPOs. Bigwigs get their big bucks, cash out, and leave everyone else holding the bag.

But if any of us knew when events like those were going to happen, we'd probably be rich from that already, hm?

Sometime I wish China had capacity to manufacture RAM. They would build fab within 1 year..
They do, it’s called CXMT and they are making RAM under contract for Corsair
Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick has warned Samsung and SK Hynix they could face 100% tariffs, framing it as a choice between paying a 100% tariff or building memory fabs in America...

Punishing instead of supporting.

Do tariff threats still matter? After being struck down, I thought the only new tariffs which could happen would have to be enacted by Congress? Or world that be a fun game where the new illegal tariffs would be on the books until the courts invalidate them again?
The administration is trying every single angle they can to make congress-less tariffs stick. The latest is slapping a bunch of countries with 10% because they claim those countries insufficiently prevent goods produced by slaves from being imported which makes it unfair for producers in the U.S.

Might be true but it’s hard to take that argument in good faith at this point.

I am sure China will not mind slapping on a 100% Trump Tariff to satisfy Howard Lutnick.
Who cares about America. American tech bros created the problem.
Also YMTC.
$20B is like pocket money at the scale the whole industry is moving.
Yes but you can't get away from a 5 year timeline, and then you have to project how many other fabs will be opening
We are down to 3 manufacturers thanks to RAM boom and bust cycles. The remaining ones are the one that know how not to over invest.
With China’s CXMT and YMTC it’s now going to be five again.
So far haven't we seen the opposite? Consumer focused ram production shutting down to make more volume for server dimms or etc?
The bottleneck isn't the sticks, it's the chips. The chips are the same for consumer and server applications. What's been happening is that big companies have bought nearly all the wafer capacity for the next year or so, and perhaps some of that capacity has also been redirected from DDR5 to LPDDR5. If a stick manufacturer drops out of the consumer market that kinda doesn't matter, because manufacturing sticks is relatively low tech compared to manufacturing the memory chips. You can compare it to manufacturing video cards vs. manufacturing GPUs (as in the actual processing elements).
The fabs are the same and are the actual bottleneck. The chips are different for CPUs and GPUs.
What do you mean? RAM manufacturers shifting their capacities to server RAM and HBM is exactly what’s happening.
Why manufacturers would build more capacity to decrease the price (and profits)?

This is similar situation to housing market. Prices are going up and supply is being restricted by whatever means.

It will be a bit of Catch 22.

Theoretically if you can build more capacity you can take customers from your competitors. If you don't really have competitors that doesn't work so well.
Government needs to get out of the way. Micron announced a memory fab in Syracuse in 2023. It took 3 years, 20,000 pages of "environmental review", deals with the government on amount of union contracts during building, etc. for them to break ground in 2026 for a 2030 opening date. In any reasonable world, a 2023 announcement should have broke ground in 2023.
OTOH, a celulose factory near me, built in the 1950's, got their permits fast and with little regard to environment. FF three decades, and their entire surroundings are destoyed for everyone else. Trials go nowhere, because they have all authorizations needed (and a lot of political leverage because they are the main employer in the region). Careful fast-tracking business that have zero incentives to avoid externalization of costs.
Oh, yeah, we are in this calamity because of government interference, not unbridled capitalism. Sure.
'Unbridled capitalism' is why the RAM exists in the first place, along with the computer or phone you typed that on.
Buddy they ain't building an ice-cream parlor. 200 miles of the Hudson river is a Superfund site. The biggest polluters, PCB's, lead and mercury.
The main blocker was that there were bats there so they needed to buy separate land to preserve. 20k pages of environmental review is just make work to spend money and create an unnecessary paper trail. If polluting with x is illegal then its illegal. The review doesnt stop that.
And? The primary goal should be to catch and stop pollution, not make manufacturers spend years promising not to do something they're not allowed to do. If someone wants to build a factory that can't operate without illegal emissions, then so be it. It's their money lost. All that matters is that they don't actually pollute.

Using red tape as some kind of prophylactic is ridiculous. If the state doesn't have the monitoring in place, you have to just trust the company, which is naive if not negligent. If you do have the monitoring, why require the extremely expensive song & dance? To protect corporations from negligently wasting money?

Answer: because the song & dance is primarily about extracting concessions, like union labor or even cash (e.g. promises to pay to fix someone else's pollution, or contributions to various interest groups). The friction and expense involved in today's development review processes are many times more costly to all involved than the social benefit.

The process is there because Industry has proven that it can't be trusted. The only way to stop it is to verify that it won't happen in the first place by making sure their building plans are up to par. The song-and-dance, well even with the review, they try their damn hardest to cut corners and hood-wig wherever they can.
> If someone wants to build a factory that can't operate without illegal emissions, then so be it. It's their money lost. All that matters is that they don't actually pollute.

That's hopelessly naïve.

If you let them build the facility that can pollute, they're going to pollute.

And if you point to the pollution coming out and tell them "you have to stop," they're going to say "make us."

And if you point to the pollution already in the environment and tell them "you have to clean that up, because you put it there," they're going to say "prove it."

And they're going to tie the government up in court for years or decades, and then oh, whoops, somehow the entity that actually did all the polluting has no more money and can't do anything about it :-( Good thing they were only a subsidiary that all the profit and assets can be moved out of!

And the people who actually live there are suffering from preventable diseases and dying of cancer at rates 5x the national average.

How do I know all this? Because this has been industry's playbook for over a century.

First of all I disagree that it's difficult to get injunctions to stop an activity that was illegal from the start. In fact, sometimes environmental reviews can backfire because they typically require affirmation by the government, which can create a defense to doing something that would otherwise be judged illegal. That type of loophole is why people are so cynical.

But even so, how does the song & dance prevent any of that? It's not like, e.g., a battery manufacturer submits a plan admitting that they're gonna dump stuff.

The plan details how those chemical storage tanks are designed and constructed. The monitoring, in place, the contingency plans.

It raises the stakes, Obviously they can still cheat but now it's a matter of criminal negligence not civil law.