[apparent]

What surprises me most about gmail and AI is that they seem really quite bad at filtering out obvious spam. I get so many messages from people I have never heard from, on relatively new domains, with endings like "if this isn't relevant for you right now, say "not now" and I'll not circle back" (a clear attempt to allow unsubscribe without using the word).

How is it that they haven't figured out how to stop these messages from getting through? I'm at the point that I'm considering those email services that require the sender to confirm they're human before an email is delivered. It would be a hassle to people I communicate with (once), but the ongoing hassle to me is sizable enough that I'm considering it.

[ryanmcbride]

If it was profitable for them to fix it they could probably fix it immediately. They don't care because it's no longer profitable for them to provide excellent service.

They only care about providing a service that is just good enough to keep enough people from jumping ship.

And the cool thing is that damn near every company on the planet is doing the same thing right now so even if you DO jump ship you aren't guaranteed anything better, just shitty in different ways.

[berkes]

They can fix it. They have certainly figured out how. But their "killer feature" is not that you don't receive spam, it's that the mail you send isn't flagged as spam by their fellow oligopolists.

We're now at the place where it's virtually impossible to run your own mailserver and have the mail delivered, consistently at Gmail and Outlook/Live/Hotmail. At least not without hours a month tuning, re-configuring, monitoring etc.

Basically, Gmail, Apple Mail, Microsoft, Yahoo (and to lesser extent, Fast-email, proton, or one of the handfull of dedicated email providers) have cemented an oligopoly. You must invest serious infrastructure, time and effort, or else your mail will be /dev/nulled (at random, often).

This "anti-spam" works, reasonably well. Because Gmail can now trust that Microsoft has measures in place to disencourage new accounts from sending large amounts of mails - and vice versa. Obviously Gmail can trust other Gmail accounts. And so they have a win-win-win.

win: No need for heavy, resource-intensive spam-training or scanning for the bulk of incoming mail - if its from a fellow BigTech, let it through. Win: an almost impossible high barrier to entry for any serious competitors. Win: Lock in, because anyone wishing to move will see their email not reach the inboxes of users at other Big Tech - aka the vast majority of inboxes.

[Terr_]

It might not fit every requirement to call it a cartel, but certainly that word is somewhere in the right direction.

[diegocg]

The worst part for me are the false positives. I frequently need to get into the spam folder to discover emails that Gmail thinks they are spam, even though there is absolutely no reason for it. I have been thinking about leaving it.

[PaulHoule]

There is a reason for it. They don't want you to receive messages from anyone who doesn't use gmail!

[apparent]

I have had mail from other gmail users, whom I had emailed and received emails from, sent to spam.

[jfengel]

Interesting. I never have any problem with spam.

My account is ancient; every spammer in the world knows it.

But practically no spam gets through. And there are very few false positives. Going though my spam folder, I see a few legitimate commercial emails that I don't care about, but the rest is junk.

Most of it is being dropped on the floor without even getting into the spam box. I have only 65 emails in my spam folder. A few years ago, there were tens of thousands. I don't know what they did, but at some point they clearly started rejecting the worst of the worst, i.e. the vast majority of it.

I have no idea why your experience is so different. I'm on a Google Workspace; perhaps that's something?

[zamadatix]

> a clear attempt to allow unsubscribe without using the word

I would have assumed it was primarily an attempt at getting you to verify the address is a real, monitored inbox. I guess it's probably a 2 birds with one stone kind of thing, lie about a way to unsubscribe to get off the spam filter and mark the email as a prime target for other domains.

[n-barraclough]

I think there might be a small domain reputation boost to having you reply. Email providers score your domain on reply rates sometimes, as well as open rates & whether you're marked as spam.

[Zardoz84]

Could be worse. I see the email from another person that has the exact same email direction that me, except that he doesn't have a "." . I see his private emails and I get double of spam... I use only Gmail as a "register and get a spam" email account. Any serious or important email goes to proton mail.

PD: I contacted that person and I formed about the situation some time ago.

[fzzzy]

There is no other person. You get all email to all of the same address regardless of the number of dots.

[Zardoz84]

Tell it to the guy from south america that I get his emails about airport tickets...

[gowld]

Maybe it's much more targeted small-scale message sends, not millions of messages.

Do you want Google to block all mail to you relatively new domains?

[stonogo]

The frustrating part is the seem to do that already, except for these obvious spam messages.

[xp84]

Do you suppose they are running the messages through any LLM? I don't know. I would guess it's too much volume to run all mail through a "good" model, but no idea whether it would be feasible to run mail through the kind of dumb model that generates "AI Overviews."

[apparent]

Oh for sure. I have even been solicited by companies that do such a thing, and brag about how they reword every email so it doesn't get flagged as spam.

[ceejayoz]

> on relatively new domains

I'm seeing a lot of domains that are clearly registered to spam without a reputational hit to the root domain; for example, wh***teams.work spamming me on behalf of wh***teams.com.

I wish Google'd link them together.

[saalweachter]

Fun fact!

Doing SEO/marketing tricks on behalf of your competitors which gets them penalized by Google is a form of blackhat SEO with a rich tradition & history.

[ceejayoz]

Sure, but the fix can't be "welp, can't do anything". Whoever sent them, these are clearly identifiable as spam, but they land in my inbox.

[benibela]

Google is also bad at not sending spam

I got a lot of group spam, where someone seems to have created a google group and added my mail to it. And then people answer the spam, and the answer is also send to everyone in the group

[insane_dreamer]

I get spam in my gmail all the time. And worse. Just minutes ago received a very official looking email from Bank of America telling me I had received a wire transfer.

[glaslong]

too similar to the ads they'd like to allow through?