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by porridgeraisin 18 days ago
I don't get it, if you're on google meet, and you want to make one of many videos PiP. How can you ever do that in the window manager? It has to be done in the application! You right click or click on the menu on that particular video, and click Picture in picture.

How the heck can the window manager do it?
2 comments
pseudalopex 18 days ago
The application could tell the window manager it wanted an always on top window. The window manager could ask the user if it should allow or reject and remember for this application or not.
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porridgeraisin 18 days ago
That's exactly what I said... and also not how wayland works.

I cannot comprehend the way wayland folks think... quote from the xdg-pip discussion:

> To not make PiP windows effectively "always on top" and "on every workspace" dialogs - a terrible and sadly by applications used concept on X11 - PiP windows must be input-only, i.e. not receive keyboard, pointer and touch input

Like what the heck even? That is how pip windows are expected to work? And of course you want inputs on them? e.g to mute/unmute on a video call? Like these are use cases used daily by people. And its "terrible".

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gmueckl 18 days ago
I also don't get it with the wayland people. It feels like they want to revert everything to a UX design that was getting old in the 90s.
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account42 17 days ago
They want to turn everything into an appliance.
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thesuitonym 18 days ago
If things were designed well, it would be as easy as clicking the pin icon on the window border.
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gmueckl 18 days ago
How many buttons do you want on a window frame then? The typical 4 buttons already take a lot of space in the title bar. Not everything that seems like a good idea at first glance is actually good design.
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thesuitonym 17 days ago
I don't know man, everybody is fine with putting tabs, and searchbars, and a bunch of other shit in the titlebar, but god forbid we put one button that's actually incredibly useful.
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gmueckl 17 days ago
Try to move a browser window when you have 20+ tabs open. This is an incredibly bad UX.
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redeeman 16 days ago
alt + left mouse button anywhere in the window (maybe win button or something is default now).

using the titlebar for moving a window is extremely backwards and productivity killer.

that being said, I agree with you, and I think its an outright abomination to put the tabs in the titlebar, and its disgusting how crome and firefox by default removes the real titlebar

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gmueckl 15 days ago
Alt+LMB drag is impossible to do properly, at least on Windows, because too many applications use that for their own inputs. There are some X11 applications that also use that (Blender?), so while it's cool when it works, it comes with pretty severe problems.
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mx7zysuj4xew 17 days ago
I've fucking had it with you people and your "design"

As many buttons as he thinks he needs, and as a compromise they can be disabled by default and enabled through settings. Instead your ilk will probably remove even those remaining buttons and replace them with some obscure movement command

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gmueckl 17 days ago
No, I wouldn't. I'm not your enemy. Please don't antagonize people like that. It's rude and I considered not replying because of your tone.

I have a pretty strong oppinion that GUI basics must be simple but more advanced stuff (e.g. tools that trainee professionals spend most of their workday in) must not hide its raw power because the user can be expected to learn.

User interface essentials have to be understandable without mental gymnastics by default without appearing overwhelming. The overwhelming majority of computer users don't change defaults on most software and a shockingly big number of computer users deal with them only because they must, not because they derive joy from it. They don't engage deeply with these devices at all. So those defaults must be picked carefully to keep the UI approachable. This isn't the same as ripping out features or antagonizing power users that do bother to learn.

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JCattheATM 10 days ago
That's what I have in my setup, six titlebar buttons: send to other screen, sticky among workspaces and always on top in addition to the base 3. Can't imagine ever using something that gives me less control again.
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