[maleldil]

> You don’t program in Lisp, do you?

Not anymore. I started with Racket and went through the Little Schemer. I did Clojure for a while. I even used Babashka to write all my scripts, then later rewrote them in other languages.

I gave it a good try. Maybe it wasn't enough to properly "get it"?

[chamomeal]

Aw man I love babashka. I will say the lack of static types in clojure is pretty brutal for me. Especially when combined with the obtuse error messages. But I still love babashka and the whole REPL driven world.

What did you end up rewriting your bb scripts in?

[maleldil]

Python, Go, or Rust, depending on the complexity. Python (with strict typing) for the simplest ones, or those where startup time wasn't a concern, Go for the medium-complexity ones that I could do with only the standard library, and Rust for everything else. Besides lisps in general still feeling alien to me, I also really like static types.

[drob518]

If there's one thing that I sometimes wish Lisp had, it's types. Most of the time, I don't need or even want them. But when you're doing a big refactor or changing the shape of your primary data structure, it would be nice to have the compiler be able to assist you in detecting locations where you've cross-wired something. But other than that, I don't care. And yes, Clojure's error messages could be better, but they have been getting better over time.

[tmtvl]

> If there's one thing that I sometimes wish Lisp had, it's types.

Let's write some very silly code to turn an integer into a list of digits in Common Lisp:

  (deftype Digit ()
    "A non-negative integer smaller than 10."
    '(Mod 10))

  (defun integer->digits (integer)
    "Turns a given INTEGER into a list of digits."
    (declare (type Integer integer))
    (labels ((digit-loop (integer digits)
                (declare (type Integer integer)
                         (type List digits))
                (if (< integer 10)
                    (list* integer digits)
                    (multiple-value-bind (quotient remainder)
                        (truncate integer 10)
                      (declare (type Integer quotient)
                               (type Digit remainder))
                      (digit-loop quotient
                                  (list* remainder digits))))))
      (declare (ftype (Function (Integer List) List) digit-loop))
      (digit-loop (abs integer)
                  nil)))

  (digit-loop 2026) ; => (2 0 2 6)

  (digit-loop "2026")
  ; The value
  ;     "2026"
  ; is not of type
  ;     INTEGER
  ; when binding INTEGER
  ;
  ; Type HELP for debugger help, or (SB-EXIT:EXIT) to exit from SBCL.
  ;
  ; Restarts:
  ;   0: [ABORT] Exit debugger, returning to top level.

[drob518]

Yep, I know, but most Lisps do not have those declarations available and even in CL they aren’t used very often. But yes, they would help in CL.

[drob518]

That's a very reasonable try. Your statements are not unfounded. If I may ask, what's your daily driver now and why do you favor it over Lisps?

[maleldil]

Python (with types), Go or Rust, depending on the complexity. I really missed static types in Clojure. I think no Lisp does static typing well. I guess there's Coalton, but it's too niche.