[sandreas]

While I somehow like the fact that Microsoft is trying to compete, their problem stays the same: There are too many people involved.

  - Nvidia
  - Mediatek
  - Microsoft 
    - Windows team
    - Surface team
    - Marketing team
  - ...

The main advantage of Apple is and will be, that they control the hardware AND the software / firmware completely and can make devices that feel completely cohesive.

That's the reason Framework has an advantage over all these Ad driven companies. They are working together with the Linux / Kernel developers to make their products fit - however it is still lacking the completely cohesive nature of the product, because they still loosely depend on Intel / AMD and other Hardware manufacturers.

An example: Every Apple device with a headphone jack since 2013 (probably long before) including iPods, iPhones and MacBooks has that little proprietary chip with ultrasonic chirp authentication integrated to control playback and volume by the EarPods headphone remote. Now there is a USB-C to 3.5mm Adapter as well as USB-C EarPods that still support this... No Windows Laptop has ever had this. The funny thing is, that Linux now supports these USB-C Apple thingies because they register as input and output devices and that the Apple 3.5mm Adapters now also support other brands headphones with Android.

[xnzakg]

> ultrasonic chirp authentication

Source? Can't find any good source on this.

[sandreas]

https://tinymicros.com/wiki/Apple_iPod_Remote_Protocol

My guess is, that Apple did not invent this to prevent others from implementing it or have something proprietary, but just because the iPod Shuffle used the same connector for Headphones and USB (see page 8 in [1]), so they somehow had to ensure, what type of cable is connected to prevent damage to the iPod.

Another interesting fact:

The iPod classic 2009 does support some of the features (play/pause, next, previous), but lacks support for fast forward and rewind (click + hold, 2 clicks + hold).

1: https://cdsassets.apple.com/live/6GJYWVAV/user/locale/de-de/...

[ghrl]

Wow, very interesting example.

[amelius]

> There are too many people involved.

Some people think that's an advantage.

[kakacik]

Yeah, apple, they can be huge a-holes simply because they can. Your integration story is nice, but same company does this actively: If you have airpods pro (2nd gen in this case) that kept working fine with apple phone, but then you got tired/annoyed/disgusted by their OS and ecosystem and migrated to Samsung S24 (my wife' story), those plugs effectively stop working via bluetooth.

Disconnects, no good ANC, pairing is beyond miserable. Use them again with another iphone and they work fine. Now somebody could claim apple engineers are so incompetent they can't implement basic bluetooth connection that plugs from china for 10 bucks can do better but I have problem believing that.

So that tight integration you praise so much can be absolute curse for arrogant behavior that apple is definitely not stranger to. Open standards and competition forces companies to behave nicely and ie buy bluetooth plugs without worry if any source device will work with it, not some wishful thinking. Main reason I never owned apple device and most probably never will, just insulting behavior towards me as paying customer.

[turtlebits]

User error? I also have 2nd gen Airpod Pros and they work fine with my S24 Ultra. The only thing that doesn't work is automatic connecting, which is actually a feature I'd like to turn off.

[msie]

Yeah, but I hear that bluetooth is a bad massive standard and there are multiple versions of bluetooth, so one bluetooth earpiece not working with a rival device is believable.

[sandreas]

I think we have a misunderstanding here...

I'm done with Apple for years, probably forever. It is hard to look at the MacBook knowing it's the best hardware and still not buy it, but I chose Openness and right to repair and will buy a framework 13 pro as soon as I can afford it.

Your story is exactly the reason I'm not buying Apple any more. However, knowing that Google does prevent the headphones longpress / hold from being handled in any audio app at the OS level is not really better and I simply have to admit, Apple does some things really well.

That said, the problem stays the same: Microsoft trying to release a notebook that can compete with Apples much smaller and tightly integrated portfolio is probably prone to fail.

I'm still glad for every alternative out there. Although I don't believe that Intel + NVidia will have a much better integration than amd strix halo in the HP Zbook G1a

[pico303]

Not a phone, but I use my old first gen AirPods Pro with my Windows laptop for work just fine using Bluetooth. I haven’t had any problems at all with them.

One thing I did was completely remove them from my Apple account and factory reset them, so they didn’t try to join my iPhone or my personal laptop. Maybe try that to see if it helps with your issues?

[moomoo11]

is this a story you hallucinated or something you actually experienced?