[throwaway290]

Where cash is stigmatized? I haven't seen such a place except PRC.

Most people want government to be able to seize assets of baddies. It is possible with cash, it is possible with banks, hardly possible with crypto.

The technology to scam people at scale with untraceable emoney is not everybody's cup of tea.

Speaking from a country that invaded its neighbor, for our government (as well as north korea) it is lovely to have a way around sanctions. Libertarian crypto bros of the west are a godsend.

They are also a godsend to current American president which loves a nice side of washed crypto along with all the other theft.

It is absolutely possible to like cash and dislike crypto

[orbital-decay]

Everyone in China has to and will accept cash in practice (no idea about big transactions though). Cash is also more frequent among locals in remote places.

Also if you're talking about Russia, people are switching back to cash en masse because cashless transfer between people is essentially half-criminalized. You run the risk of getting all your bank accounts blocked instantly on mere suspicion or for things outside of your control, with almost no real rules, accountability, or practical ways to push back. It's the way to avoid the runaway government process in the first place.

[throwaway290]

> Everyone in China has to and will accept cash in practice

False. If you say this as advice to anyone you are putting them in danger. Cash is a no go for most vendors and you may struggle to buy food if you only have cash. I was personally rejected numerous times and told to scan QR or go home.

> if you're talking about Russia, people are switching back to cash en masse

Also false. I don't know a single person to switch to cash. Friend of a friend lost bank card and was basically on QR for months, no cash no plastic.

Here is what I know:

- There are limits on dollars basically since the beginning of war. (Normal people aren't affected because they don't use dollars)

- There was apparently a brief scare that banks cannot satisfy if you want to withdraw a lot of ruble and then the gov quickly claimed it to be false (of course). The amounts were too high for any normal person.

- a bit of cash is helpful to help because censorship infrastructure caused internet hiccups so electronic payments occasionally don't go through, but it seems rare now

- in western regions people tend to carry more cash simply because mobile internet is regularly unavailable. After all if you can't access your banking app to pay for coffee while civilians in Ukraine across the border are getting bombed, it's a bit embarrasing.

Otherwise everyone is as cashless as usual, people moving money out of banks en masse is probably made up.

[orbital-decay]

I'm saying that as someone who traveled across China in a (legally and physically) hardest way possible, including crossing the Taklamakan Desert where I wasn't even supposed to be. I have no idea what you're talking about - I've been mostly using cash even in tier 1 cities for everything from motor oil to street food, with occasional mobile for things like DiDi. Hotels, some vendors and others east of the Hu line can turn you down just because you're a foreigner, they don't like cash but will accept it. West of the Hu line cash is the primary way, if you're in the middle of nowhere in Qinghai it can even be the only way.

>Also false. I don't know a single person to switch to cash.

I'm sorry but either you have a pretty specific circle or you're not living in Russia (Moscow isn't). I'm talking about private transfers, not x5 groceries. Electricians, plumbers, and other workers I happened to hire in the recent several months were all reluctant to deal with bank transfers. I advise reading the federal law 161 and the actual "enforcement" practice. I personally know two debanked people, both are elderly, one is a scam victim and another was trying to move her own savings. In the second case it took months of refusals, unclear procedures, and a metric ton of paperwork to get out of it, and it was only possible because I was helping.

[protocolture]

>Most people want government to be able to seize assets of baddies.

I dont, not while they get to decide who the baddies are.

[MyMemoryfails]

This is correct attitude, for example some people actually got arresred for supporting ukraine efforts on war. I disagree that all my assets must be seized because i donated few bucks for sake protecting invaded country.

Ukraine event's is prime example why finanical privacy is important. I think we're solving taxing issue from wrong angle, we should be look this another angle: Merchants should be identifiable and taxable while customer stay private. GNU's solution "Talor" is very interesting and promising.

[padolsey]

>Where cash is stigmatized? I haven't seen such a place except PRC.

I don't know about stigma, per se, but there are a few places where businesses have a pretty explicit legal right to refuse cash, UK, Netherlands, Sweden, US. Oddly in PRC refusing cash is illegal.

[marysol5]

Because "cash" isn't actually real, it's entirely a form of completion of a contract. The same contract that you could agree to complete by trading chickens, or bottles of bath water.

[vajrabum]

I don't understand what is meant by "hardly possible with crypto." I've been hearing that for a long time but I've also heard so many stories about theft of crypto assets and seizures by government. In the US that seems to have slowed to near nothing with the current administration but it doesn't seem to be a capability issue. Or maybe I misunderstand you or the situation?

[yieldcrv]

there is high consensus on that, but not high enough to enshrine it into the constitution. in countries with strong rule of law, the courts have continued to uphold this whenever the state gets bold enough to move on a previously tolerated "baddie"

capital, as an aggregate expression of people's desires, moves like water. if will flow through any small opening

capital controls will flow through any weak link, whether that's a Shanghai free trade zone, a freeport at the airport in JFK or Zurich, physical cash, illiquid assets traded through a trust, or natively in crypto, or crypto wrapped within the same aforementioned structures, no matter what the prevailing or commoner's view is everywhere else in the region

even countries that can change on the whims of an all powerful head of state, they don't really mess with the capital because it drives everyone else away and reduces the head of state's own liquidity and economic driver.