[thewebguyd]

> Docks are horrifying products. Thunderbolt docks are doubly horrifying.

I believe it. From all my years as a sysadmin, docks were by far the second largest source of headaches (after printers). Super high failure rate, all kinds of quirks, shoddy power delivery. And these weren't some cheap amazon basics dongles, I'm talking the $250+ docks from Dell, Lenovo, etc.

[whatever1]

Docks ok. But why printers are such a hot mess? For the past 20 years they could have been just webservers that we send REST requests to.

But no, we had to install random drivers on our machines, get blue screens and have to plug and unplug the printers until they get reset properly.

[jasonjayr]

MS got involved, and they are web servers that you send SOAP requests to, (to support MFC devices, of course) and the Windows stack uses UPNP to discover them, and register them by their UPNP names, and they tend to be sticky to their temporary IPv6 addresses, and often fail to rediscover when their temporary IPv6 address changes. Oh and the windows UI doesn't give you any ability to edit the 'port', failing instead with some incomprehensible "operation not supported" if you dare click the 'edit' on the port.

[dwaite]

It's not considered fully RESTful, but it sounds like you are describing IPP, which came out in 1997.

Compatibility marks/certifications like AirPrint (2010) define how to advertise your IPP printer and its features, such as whether you can directly send a PDF. IPP Everywhere is perhaps the most notable open alternative to AirPrint.

[jorvi]

IPP Everywhere and AirPrint are virtually identical AFAIK, it's just that AirPrint uses a slightly different proprietary raster format because Apple is gonna Apple.

[kube-system]

> For the past 20 years they could have been just webservers that we send REST requests to.

That exists, it’s called IPP.

[numpad0]

Because everyone wants 100% PostScript-compatible printers and nothing else.

The PostScript was created by ex-PARC people as they were founding a small startup called Adobe Systems, and it was chosen by Apple for its revolutionary 1985 LaserWriter printer. LaserWriter was partially OEM'd by Canon, and its competitors couldn't simply steal the protocol; most others to date use a 100% compatible proprietary protocols that, IIUC, aren't internally that much different from it. And PostScript later became the basis for Adobe's other publishing data formats, including PDF, which means pdf/ai/psd is 100% guaranteed WYSIWYG. macOS 10.x also partially uses PDF to render desktop.

and this ^ is why.

[coldtea]

>Because everyone wants 100% PostScript-compatible printers and nothing else.

Nothing about what the parent wrote prevents that.

[chubs]

What if computers simply rendered 300dpi PNG files and sent that to the printer?

[exmadscientist]

That's actually what a lot of Brother printers do with their default or generic drivers. Except... it's JPEG, not PNG, so you get artifacting. Drives me crazy.

Installing the specific driver like it's 1999 works well, but most people don't bother these days. And thus the world is a bit more crap.

[colechristensen]

Printers are complex robots, require frequent supply refills, and are high touch interactions with people. (people printing things wrong, people misusing printing resources, managing quotas for same, etc.)

It's not just firmware.

[coldtea]

It's 100% just firmware + crappy business model.

Printers are hardly "complex" - a few very standard gear/roller/sensor based mechanisms we've built for 4 decades pretty identically with hardly any innovation. Besides far more complex frequent-use devices don't have such shit problems and experience.

Nor is "you're out of blue ink, you can't print this b&w document" or "you didn't install the official $50 cartridge, but a third-party $10 one, you can't print" and such crap related even remotely to printers being "complex robots" or "requiring frequent supply reffils".

[colechristensen]

You're talking about printers at home. We're talking about printers at work.

[coldtea]

Same shit. Same shit vendors too.

[KaiserPro]

Apart from speciality printers[1], I've not had to use drivers for many years.

[1] ie a risograph

[vitally3643]

Because printers must be as cheap as possible and require a recurring revinue stream, which includes malware. Sorry, "valuable special offers".

It costs more money to make a printer with good firmware, and you're more likely to throw away a buggy printer and buy a new one with new special ink cartridges.

[coldtea]

>And these weren't some cheap amazon basics dongles, I'm talking the $250+ docks from Dell, Lenovo, etc.

Most of premium "docks" (if not all) are repackaged cheap hw sold much lower as no-name.