[alterom]

Chromebooks aren't netbooks.

They're Android tablets with non-removable keyboards.

The idea of a netbook was very small, cheap, portable, full-featured computer that you could use like a normal computer.

All the ports, your desktop OS, and so on.

Chromebooks ain't it, even if they compete in the market segment that made netbooks a success.

[Groxx]

So replace the OS: https://docs.mrchromebox.tech/

I've done that with mine. Worked great, and now I get around 30 hours of battery life with a lean linux distro, as long as I'm only like reading websites or writing on it.

[alterom]

>So replace the OS: https://docs.mrchromebox.tech/

How's the Windows support with this flow?

[Groxx]

Depends on the device (for both Linux and Windows): https://docs.mrchromebox.tech/docs/faq.html#will-my-device-r...

For a list of devices: https://docs.chrultrabook.com/docs/devices.html

[fragmede]

Which windows program are you looking for, specifically?

[alterom]

>Which windows program are you looking for, specifically?

All of them, specifically.

I don't want to think about which windows program can or can't run with Wine.

This includes:

* Microsoft software, from MSTeams to Windows itself

* Audio production software (DAWs and VST plug-ins)

* Games

* Device-specific software (like drivers/software for portable thermal printers)

* CAD (nTop, only supports Windows, for example, and don't tell me I don't need it; same for many Autodesk products. NX and Rhino don't have Linux support)

The last one is the most fun, as I'm a CAD developer who worked on nTop in particular.

[fragmede]

We'll have to see how the AI softwarepocalypse goes. If I only need 10% of the features of Photoshop, I really don't need to be spending money on the full software suite.

How's nTop Linux support coming along?

[Dylan16807]

I'm surprised you want to run real CAD software on a netbook. I think your use case is pretty unusual.

Also drivers are often better on Linux.

[alterom]

>I'm surprised you want to run real CAD software on a netbook. I think your use case is pretty unusual.

CAD has been around since before IBM PC came out. It's not necessarily a demanding piece of software.

Still, scratch CAD. My favorite VST synths are Windows-based.

And I don't want to lug around extra kilograms just to make some noise.

[Groxx]

tbh I suspect it would be just fine. even the really cheap ones tend to have at least a few gigabytes of RAM.

[dijit]

I think you missed the point of a netbook.

Aside from Microsoft Office, the rest is workstation stuff, and Microsoft Office is pushing "web first" (at least if their pricing is to be believed, the lowest O365 subscriptions do not offer access to the native apps).

[alterom]

>I think you missed the point of a netbook.

I think you missed the point of the question.

> the rest is workstation stuff

Yes, I want to be able to run workstation stuff on the small computer I carry everywhere, so that I don't have to carry my workstation everywhere.

[dtkav]

I have a matte black Pixelbook Go running PopOS and i love it.

The hardware feels great to hold (though the touchpad is still meh). I covered the Google logos with a glossy black vinyl Obsidian sticker.

https://notes.danielgk.com/Hardware/Travel+Laptop

[ajross]

That sounds like an opinion baked in 2013 and never revisited. A modern chromebook with Crostini can run basically any Linux desktop stack you want. Like, what exactly are the tasks you need from a "computer that you could use like a normal computer" that you aren't getting today?

As a data point: I'm 100% converted personally. A Chromebook is what goes into my backpack and the device I use for all my general day-to-day UI clickery, and it's a better fit for my needs than Windows (not nearly as bad as it used to be but still sort of a PITA to make work as a Linux-focused dev environment) or Linux (not nearly as much of a PITA for a connected consumer network device but still has the occasional wart trying to get something weird to run).

[yjftsjthsd-h]

Crostini is a mixed bag; e.g. IIRC something in their stack breaks ptrace. I prefer to wipe and install a normal Linux distro. But, when it works it works, and I do use one Chromebook with Crostini.

[ajross]

ptrace works fine on crostini. The guest kernel has Yama enabled, which restricts it to root for boring security reasons. You can do your debugging at a root shell or turn the setting (yama/ptrace_scope) off via sysctl.

[alterom]

> A modern chromebook with Crostini can run basically any Linux desktop stack you want. Like, what exactly are the tasks you need from a "computer that you could use like a normal computer" that you aren't getting today?

Run Windows and Windows programs that I use.

> it's a better fit for my needs than Windows

Happy for you. The key here is your needs.

[ajross]

> The key here is your needs.

Well... yeah. Likewise your post is clearly about your needs, which are different. But that's not what you said, you said it "wasn't a computer" and you couldn't use it "like a normal computer". Which is obviously wrong. But I guess "normal computer" means "windows" to you, which (especially given the forum you posted on!) is a little surprising.

So what you wrote (but apparently not meant) seemed mistaken to me, thus the correction. But if you want windows then just buy windows. Your market is well served.

[alterom]

>But I guess "normal computer" means "windows" to you

Normal computer means a choice of OS to run on it without having to hack it to do that job.

Chromebooks aren't sold as general-purpose computing devices. They aren't "normal computers" in the same sense that cell phones aren't.

>which (especially given the forum you posted on!) is a little surprising.

I'm a CAD developer and user. I need Windows for my work.

I would hope that this forum includes people who are in touch with the real world.

[ajross]

You're losing me. Your first reply says "A computer that meets my needs must provide a choice of OSes", your second says "A computer that meets my needs must run one specific OS". To be blunt: your reasoning here is simply bunk and I don't understand it.

If you must use windows, then you must use windows and you don't have a choice. None of that has anything to do with the nonsense about Chromebooks not being "real computers" or whatever, that's just the rationalization you've decided on. Obviously they are real computers.

[Dylan16807]

> Normal computer means a choice of OS to run on it without having to hack it to do that job.

That's too high a standard. When we consider MacOS along with Windows and Linux, there are basically no computers that let you freely choose between all three without hacks.

And even just considering Windows and Linux, a big chunk of the laptop market only supports Windows properly.

A laptop that runs any normal desktop OS is a normal computer.

[fragmede]

> A modern chromebook with Crostini can run basically any Linux desktop stack you want.

Psh, Fuck that. Install actual Linux on it (I have Debian on mine) and don't deal with ChromeOS (if you don't want to).

[ajross]

That works great until you inevitably need to launch some streaming service that doesn't work on Linux Chrome or whatever. The needs of "general consumer junk we all deal with" are real. I spent decades on the "I don't actually need that stuff" hamster wheel too, and... yeah, it sucks and I'm too old for that.

A Chromebook is a first class consumer device backed by a Big Threatening Tech Giant that works on all sites everywhere because no one wants to piss off Google. And it's still Linux and runs great. I'll take it.

[fragmede]

> I'm too old for that.

I was too, and then AI came out, and now Codex just makes my Linux work how I want it, no needing to fiddle with .config/gconf whatever crap. I just tell it to fix my two finger scrolling on my trackpad, and it does it.

[ajross]

AI can't make the Mandalorian or The Last of Us play, though. This may have been fixed or worked around now, but for sure Disney+ and HBO were holdouts that refused to work on a Linux Chrome, Widevine be damned.

I mean, sure, I can torrent a copy or whatever. But there's a point at which you just don't want to deal with that nonsense. ChromeOS is Linux, in all the ways I care to measure. But it codes as "not Linux" to all the corporate overlords afraid of the nerds and hippies, and that has value too.

[fragmede]

A local abliterated AI model with computer use could totally do the drudgery of "torrent a copy or whatever". AI deals with "that nonsense" now.

> ChromeOS is Linux, in all the ways I care to measure.

It's Linux the same way Android is technically Linux. You get this little box called Linux, and /proc isn't actually the "real" /proc because it's inside a VM. To each their own, but it's not (GNU) Linux enough for me.

[singpolyma3]

I run my desktop OS on my Chromebook (boring Debian) and use it like a normal computer. All the ports (HDMI, usb) and so.

[queenkjuul]

Back when Chromebooks and Netbooks were contemporaries, yours was a much harder proposition. I had an awful time getting Linux on my first gen Chromebook

[singpolyma3]

I've heard that on the new ones they've illegally made it not possible anymore, but haven't experienced direct evidence of that yet. For mine I had to remove a screw from the motherboard but it wasn't that difficult. Not much worse than jumper for boot order in ye olde days

[queenkjuul]

My suggestion? If you want a Chromebook to run Linux, look for surplus school laptops instead. My throwaround workshop laptop is an Asus that to me looks like it was clearly sold in an educational Chromebook format as well--partially ruggedized, partially waterproof, 12", N100, plastic blank where the camera should be, still only $120

Basically, if you're lucky, you can find Chromebook-class PCs with less restrictions. Admittedly I'm in a lucky locale for such things, but the one in question i bought from a normal retailer

[fragmede]

The new procedure is boot without the battery connected to enable writing to flash.

[singpolyma3]

If they're still allowing that it seems fine