[smokedetector1]

If you look around at the country, you will see that the top echelons of wealth and power are held by a mix of christians and jews, if we divide it by religion. Further, the israel lobby does not equal jews, it equals the israel lobby. Currently christians dominate all branches of government. It would take a biased, dishonest analysis to conclude that jews as a group are in control.

i am confident that all the other “how many” stereotypes you have in mind are bullshit too, and have other cultural, historical, contextual explanations, just like every stereotype of every group.

[bfkwlfkjf]

You're right, the Israeli lobby does not equal Jews, but support for Israel is almost universal amongst Jews. It doesn't equal but it's strongly connected.

[moogly]

The staunchest antizionists tend to be Jews. Pretty sure there are more self-professed Christian zionists living in America than Jewish zionists too.

It behooves everyone to stop equating antizionism with antisemitism, because doing that actually breeds the latter.

[bfkwlfkjf]

> Pretty sure there are more self-professed Christian zionists living in America than Jewish zionists too.

All you're saying is that there are more Christians than Jews.

In the context of "you're conflating Jews with Israel" what actually matters if you want to compare with Christians is P(support Israel|Jew) Vs P(support Israel|Christian). Stop being disengenuous.

[smokedetector1]

Your original statement was “there is a grain of truth that jews control the media/country because of the influence of the israel lobby.” (actually, your statement was even worse than that - that you believe that “many” stereotypes about jews in particular are true, unlike other groups).

The response is “the israel lobby is supported by christian evangelicals, a more numerous group than jews.” This is a clear refutation.

Im not sure what point youre trying to make other than that. Seems like you really want to blame the jews

[bfkwlfkjf]

Again, you're confused.

I'm saying that P(supports Israel | is Jewish) is large, and you're saying no, because P(is Christian evangelical | supports israel) is large (because there's so many more). In fact both might be true and are true, but your statement has no connection to the stereotype.

[smokedetector1]

Im not confused at all. Youre saying that most jews support israel, therefore if the israel lobby has power, its proof that the stereotype that jews control the world has a grain of truth.

This is fallacious reasoning on a number of levels, not least because all evangelical christians, as a rule, also support israel due to their religious beliefs, and in fact hold increasing power in the US, yet you blame jews for this and not christian evangelicals.

Further, as I said earlier, christians by far outnumber jews in power positions in the US and worldwide.

You dont seem to care about the facts. You have an idea you want to push, which is that jewish stereotypes, which basically consist of them being evil and controlling the world, have a “grain of truth”. You think that throwing around probability symbols makes you smart. Youre not the smartest person in the room; youre just a lowly bigot. I can only hope that youre still young enough to break out of this path.

[throw477488]

You probably imagine people will think you are very smart because you can put your racism into formulae.

You actually just come across as a shitty person.

[smokedetector1]

> there are more self-professed Christian zionists living in America than Jewish zionists

this is a very important point I will remember as well. there are 10x as many evangelical christians as jews in the US, and they are often zionists. zionism is emphatically not just a jewish movement

[bfkwlfkjf]

There's a causation that you're missing. Zionism was originally an exclusively Jewish movement. Christian evangelicals were pulled in latter on as useful idiots. So yes, Zionism is not exclusively a Jewish movement nowadays, because the Jewish element is doing a good job with their plan of finding and creating allies.

[smokedetector1]

Yes you have gone fully mask off here. The jewish element? Youre nothing but a nazi, if you arent one yet you will be one soon.

[bfkwlfkjf]

That's another aspect of Zionism, which is that it's really not about defending Jews, it's about defending Israel. Even Jews like myself, when they criticize Israel they're immediately labeled Nazis. Really crazy stuff.

[smokedetector1]

okay but your comment about antisemitic stereotypes having a grain of truth is a nonsequitur. the stereotypes dont exist because of truth, they exist because of bigotry. whether or not they overlap with current circumstances is irrelevant. if you look at the reality of who holds power in society you will not find that its exclusively - or even mainly - jews unless you set out to selectively ignore all of the numerous christian leaders and power centers