[atleastoptimal]

There is an artistic element to coding but claiming it is some sort of unquantifiable abstract mystical thing is silly. There are many metrics, objective and easily measured, that AI can match humans on in code generation.

[fzeroracer]

None of those 'objective' metrics matter as long as the outcomes is incredibly visible and damaging. You say that AI is matching humans, but what people see is apps getting worse with more bugs than ever, an inability to reach anyone that actually gives a shit and second order effects on things like general computing.

It doesn't help that most of these 'metrics' are literally invented by and ran by the companies that benefit the most from said metrics. I've seen this shit at major companies before, because the c-suite loves to invent metrics that make their product look good even if it ignores reality.

[atleastoptimal]

The median != the frontier. When looking at all the crappy vibe coded apps and saying they’re worse than the normal expectations of pre-AI applications, you’re comparing some default app-generator model (Gemini flash or worse) with the security integrity of enterprise apps (which still have security flaws). This is very different from comparing Opus 4.8 to the median coder, given the same context, parameters, access to tools, time, and feedback loops.

[fzeroracer]

The frontier has been on the horizon for the past 5 years, where people say it's going to replace all engineers and we'll be in some sort of software heaven. Until when and IF we reach that point, the only thing that matters are the negative outcomes we currently experience as a result.