[mavelikara]

> A law which will be used from the opposite side just as well, as soon as the power switches hands again.

This is the real test. If these changes are so bad, will someone campaign bare on overturning these? Will the “other side” change it?

If they don’t, you know that they also agreed with it - this handwringing now is just for show.

[foldr]

That’s not a test of whether the changes are bad; it’s a test of the Democrats’ character. We know the changes are bad. If subsequent administrations do nothing to reverse them, then they are bad too.

[mcphage]

> If they don’t, you know that they also agreed with it - this handwringing now is just for show.

No, the left should use the things right broke to abuse the right—just like the right is breaking everything to abuse the left. Otherwise the right will never learn why breaking things is a bad idea, and they’ll just keep on breaking everything like they have been for my entire life and before.

[basilgohar]

This will only result in the abuse of the populous by the powerful, not right or left. Right and left are illusions that are at best distractions from the powerful class asserting their interests to the detriment of the lower classes. That's all there is. Always was, always will be. Both left and right have eroded this whilst claiming to do the opposite.

[shaftoe]

Pretty sure the right generally believes the left has been doing the same.

Previously, it was a more libertarian and constitutional argument: progressive causes since the new deal have assumed powers not granted.

More recently this has completely flipped to a populist culture war argument that the left, in excesses seen in the DEI hayday before COVID, has lost its mind and began attacking and punishing people.

My point isn't to argue "no you" but to instead invalidate your point about lessons and outcomes. The centers of these two tribes exist in separate realities and experiences. Escalating is unlikely to have the effect of bringing those perspectives together.

[mcphage]

> Pretty sure the right generally believes the left has been doing the same.

That’s all the more reason to do it. The right believes lots of things that aren’t so, so learning what abuse actually is might stop them from crying wolf in the future.

[harimau777]

That seems like all the more reason to fight fire with fire. Right now its an existential fight so if MAGA can't be reasoned with then the only option is to fight back by ay means available.

[Spooky23]

You’re thinking tactically. I actually thing the democrats will try to put the Trumpist stuff back in the box. They may not be able to. The rule of law requires trust and that’s gone, and will only be rebuilt by time.

The reactionary Supreme Court has changed the character of the executive. That court will live for many years. The executive branch exists to represent the will of the chief executive. We’ve normalized criminal behavior with the abuse of pardons and crushed the institution of DOJ.

These guys opened a very stupid Pandora’s box. The long game is brutal. When we need to start dismantling the military, that’s going to impact some places pretty severely, for example. The science and tech edge will be gone in a decade.

[chadgpt3]

Have the Democrats ever put any power-grab instruments back in any boxes? I don't remember a time they have, and I don't think they'll start now. They are meek cowards.

[Spooky23]

New York neutered the power of appointed officials and authorities after Robert Moses.

As the other poster mentioned, the post-Vietnam Church committee was a democratic party-led, bipartisan committee that effectively heeled the CIA and exposed many of the pretty dark abuses committed in that era.

[vharuck]

They joined Republicans in limiting presidential power after Watergate. Granted, these limitations usually come after gross abuses. But these are gross abuses, and there's no reason to think they won't get grosser.

[jrmg]

You’re thinking tactically.

All tactics, no strategy is the way of things currently - on the right especially, but on the left to some extent too. It’s maddening.

[vjvjvjvjghv]

It seems to me that the right wingers have a pretty detailed strategy as you can see with Project 2025. I don’t see anything similar on the left wing. I think it’s pretty crazy that even with the current chaos the democrats still aren’t able to craft a coherent message why people should vote FOR them instead of just voting against the republicans. They look purely reactive. No clear message on health care, no message on affordability. Just nothing. And on the local level the message seems to be “have sympathy for the guy who broke your car window and popped in your yard”.

[warumdarum]

Also ignore all the obvious unabridgeable cultural differences like the non stop calling indian scammers harassing your parents. Reality is the best vaccacine to alot of ideology. The cofabulations to new wrongs about ancient wrongs they do nothing but advocate for the right.

[ryandrake]

> It seems to me that the right wingers have a pretty detailed strategy as you can see with Project 2025. I don’t see anything similar on the left wing. I think it’s pretty crazy that even with the current chaos the democrats still aren’t able to craft a coherent message why people should vote FOR them

This is the worst part. The Democrats have nothing but outrage and protest. They don’t have a written Democrat Project 2029. Their action plan is as thin as a Reddit post.

The right spent decades working on their strategy, who to target/convert, how to do it, what they would do once in power, and how quickly: and they wrote it down. What the fuck are the Democrats doing? Holding little signs up in protest in Congress and having little press conferences where they make meek outrage noises. This is a very unserious party in the face of a very serious political problem.