[crabbone]

It was drilled into me since childhood that speaking with your hands is lacking "class". On a conscious level, I know not to judge people by something as superficial, but on subconscious level, if someone is swinging their hands in the air while talking to me: I don't want to talk to them. It's the same with being loud, or using stop words etc.

I haven't been to Italy, but this was a huge deal for me living in Israel. In Israel, it's a substantial cultural divide between descendants of Arab countries refugees and those coming from Europe. It's generally seen as "proper" to not use your hands. In the military, especially in basic training, that would probably send you doing pushups.

I live in the Netherlands for about five years now. To be honest, I didn't notice people talking with their hands... well, outside of the Middle East or North African immigrants. Also, I don't really have Dutch friends to the point that we'd spend enough time together for me to notice how and if they use their hands during a conversation. In more formal context, I don't see the Dutch doing that.

[HappyPanacea]

> but this was a huge deal for me living in Israel.

I lived in Israel my whole life and I don't remember ever encountering the notion that 'speaking with your hands is lacking "class"' or that ' It's generally seen as "proper" to not use your hands.'. I just looked and easily found two videos with Israel's Prime Minister where he used hand gestures while talking.

> In the military, especially in basic training, that would probably send you doing pushups.

No, I don't think so, why would it?

[crabbone]

Here's about the Israeli PM, and why he's allowed not to wear a tie:

> One day, Netanyahu shows up to the Knesset not wearing a tie. The speaker then reminds him about the decorum, to which Netanyahu replies that the queen of England allowed him not to wear one. The speaker then inquires about the circumstances, to which Netanyahu replies that he didn't wear a tie to Buckingham either, and that the queen told him "perhaps back in Israel, you might not wear a tie, but you must remember to wear one here."

In other words, Netanyahu is, by no means an example of what anyone would consider to be "classy". He's not the worst example, but he certainly fits the stereotype of obnoxious, loud, poorly dressed and otherwise poorly mannered.

> No, I don't think so, why would it?

Absolutely. It's kind of ridiculous to watch a typical Israeli recruit struggle with it. There's a practical reason for it: you have to speak clearly when you are on comms, and nobody can you see swing your hands to explain yourself. But, military being military, this is just a rule that's applied to everyone. Another reason is that you have to stand at attention ("amod be dom matuakh") when you are talking to an officer. Again, this applies to basic training ("tironut") only, since during your regular service you rarely stand at attention in general, let alone when talking to an officer.

[throw838394]

I was taught the same thing. In particular I kept being told that gesturing is an indication of a poor vocabulary. So I taught myself to never do it.

I do not mind gesturing itself done by other people, but I’ve found that it correlates a lot with violating my personal space. A lot of gesturing ends up being done right in front of my face, or just too close to my body in general. And that annoys me and makes me lose respect for the person doing that.

[sdevonoes]

Must be horrible

[burner420042]

Stop words are filler words?

um, uh, like, you know