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by adev_ 20 days ago
> and reliable vertical landings

We know how to do reliable vertical landing since the DCXA in 1991. Meaning more than 25y ago [1]

> reliability during missions (test explosions like this one are tests for a reason)

Static fire tests are routine since the 60s, nothing new here either [2].

> We have 15x reduction in payload-to-orbit costs

This is about manufacturing optimization and it has very little to do with rocket safety.

> hey are well on their way to making orbital space flight a commodity

They are not. It is at best marketing speech. The access to space is at best cheaper but will never be commodity.

The parent post is right on point: Rockets todays are still fundamentally the same giant bomb filled at 85% with explosive that we were making in the 60s. And this is unlikely to change and unlikely to ever be safe.

There is very valid reasons to that: we still did not find anything better than chemical propulsion to go in the last 80 years. It is the only 'working' solution in term of the energy density required to bring us there:

- Ion thrusters have amazing Isp but nowhere the Thrust/Weight ratio required to launch from Earth.

- Nuclear propulsion is good on paper but controversial in practice for pretty obvious reasons.

So we are still stuck. Stuck with burning 1'000t of highly inflammable Ergols in few minutes to just push any blob in orbit. With very thin engineering margins, way thiner than in airplane manufacturing or currently pretty any other domain.

And that make it unlikely to ever be really "safe" and accessible to the mass.

At least, not before we find a better solution to the problem.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBar3FyI_cA

[2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rP6k18DVdg

5 comments

>> and reliable vertical landings

> We know how to do reliable vertical landing since the DCXA in 1991. Meaning more than 25y ago

One could argue the applicability of "reliable" given the project's track record, but it's not really relevant in any case since that program only got up a few kilometers and nowhere near orbital velocity.

Really not convincing that you know what you're talking about if you're taking the DCX prototypes flying up to 3km as meaning that we had landing orbital class boosters sorted out in 1991. That was a hopper vehicle comparable to the original SpaceX Grasshopper prototype.
> that we had landing orbital class boosters sorted out in 1991

SpaceX first stage boosters are not orbital class.

They reach around Mach 6 (Up to my knowledge) at top course and around Mach 3 on descend before the landing burn.

Valid criticism however would be that the DC-X was intended for a return head first with a belly flip. Not tail first like SpaceX boosters.

As such, it is much more similar to Starship spacecraft.

An orbital class booster isn't a booster that goes to orbit, it's a booster that is part of an orbital rocket stack.

The important distinction is that the DC-X prototype was, at best, supersonic given the low altitude and flight time record, while any efficient booster powering an orbital spaceflight is easily going hypersonic by the time it's returning to Earth.

Still, you ideally just want to launch people and some complex machinery from Earth & produce about everything for in space use from local resources. That makes it possible to heavily optimize Earth to LEO craft for safety and reliability, alleviating most of these concerns.
If I had a few hundred billion lying around, I'd be spending a couple of billion a year on grants for new physics research.

Hire all those smart people who waste their lives being quants and steer them in the direction of something useful.

This is fair but I'm not sure the low hanging fruit is going to be developing technology that can reach earth escape velocity without being extremely sensitive to how well built and prepared the system applying the enormous amount force required is. Even the hypothetical stuff like Spin Launch and space elevators is going to have catastrophic failure modes....
> If I had a few hundred billion lying around, I'd be spending a couple of billion a year on grants for new physics research.

Unfortunately, this is not the way the world is going right now.

Physics research, and generally speaking fundamental research, is publicly funded.

Meaning, most of the time, under funded.

Falcon 9 is as reliable and safe as an airliner flight - what more do you want?
Not even close by 3 order of magnitude.

Falcon has an accident rate of 2/640.

Airlines are about ~1.3 / 10^6