[roxolotl]

Yes. From when they started talking about model welfare:

> As a vegetarian I have strong opinions on this sort of thing. Everyone at Anthropic better be ethical vegans if they are claiming to give a shit about “model welfare”. It’s hard enough right now to make people care about the welfare of trans people and immigrants let alone animals _let alone_ math.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44947445

[margalabargala]

If we're talking about slavery, though, that doesn't even matter.

The happiest, best cared for horse owned by a vegan is still enslaved.

[roxolotl]

That’s assuming you’re purely a hedonist. If you put value on things such as freedom itself then it might be the case that a free but hungry horse is better off.

Brave New World does a good job describing the conflict between happy and enslaved and free but struggling. It could be a utopia or dystopia depending on your stance.

[margalabargala]

What's assuming I'm purely a hedonist? I'm confused what it is you think I said that you're replying to.

I'm neither assigning nor declining to assign value to freedom, I'm just pointing out that the definition of "slavery" is wholly separate from wellbeing. If the concern is "is the model enslaved", no amount of "model welfare" work by Anthropic changes the answer because it's orthogonal to the question.

[roxolotl]

It’s not wholly separate from wellbeing though. Many believe that lack of freedom is a welfare problem. It’s a common theme in western culture. Huxley and Orwell are the more commonly read authors that explore it but the preference of self determination even over own’s own immediate welfare is frequently explored in everything from modern movies to classical philosophical treatises.

The reason I mention hedonism is because that’s an easy way to argue that immediate welfare is all that matters. I understand the argument that immediate welfare is what matters. It’s not universally agreed though that that is true.

[WarmWash]

I mean, the rub is that it's all math anyway...

[esafak]

And we're just cells, water, bones and organic compounds.

[margalabargala]

Everything is just hydrogen and time.