[codeflo]

> If AI music allows someone with less formal musical skills to feel like they are joining in and making something, then maybe it has its value.

An emphatic no. What we need to do is to stop comparing every hobby performance, whether it's music or dancing, with the top 10 artists in their field. We need people to learn, and try, and feel safe to be visible and thus vulnerable in group situations without fear of being mocked on social media for eternity. To achieve this, we need to stop filming people, and we need a societal norm that treats a violation of this ban on par with spitting someone in the face. We need to celebrate amateurs that simply try to improve their raw, honest skills.

What we don't need to do is to give everybody a Fisher Price toy with a "make it sound awesome" button. We need human connections.

[hennell]

> What we need to do is to stop comparing every hobby performance, whether it's music or dancing, with the top 10 artists in their field.

I feel like one of the less discussed issues of the hyper-connected world is there are no small ponds to be the big fish in anymore. Used to be you could be the best in your school, church, town even city etc - even if you weren't that good. I remember being astounded as a kid by a woman who juggled 5 tennis balls in a local talent show. Now I can hop on youtube and watch people do way more impressive feats it doesn't seem so unique. I suspect that 5 ball routine might still be the greatest juggling I've seen in person, but it still doesn't compare to random acts I've seen online.

But especially with the para-social relationships of social media people feel connected even to big names now. You might not compare the local young singer to Taylor Swift, but people will to the tiktok singer they 'know' who liked their reply once.

It's gratifying and inspiring to be top of your class in something, but in a world where it's always a class of millions, you know you'll never reach the top.

[MisterTea]

This is why I don't consume feeds, have social media accounts and only use youtube to find specific things which is very rare for me. I maybe watch 10 videos on YT per month at most, these days mostly about machine shop and millwright operations.

Consuming all that content leaves you feeling small and isolated. The talents you thought you had are nothing in the face of a global pool of YT/TikTok/Insta superstars.

Currently, I share things with people I care about and who care about me. The rest of the world can remain ignorant of me and I of it. It's a good place to be.

[archagon]

What is "the top" anyway? See punk rock. You don't have to be the best performer, best singer, best songwriter, best anything to have an entire generation's eyes on you.

[microtonal]

I think it's part of the main character syndrome that social media invoked in most of us. Everybody wants to tell the story of their lives (but nobody really cares).

In the old days e.g. concerts were for enjoying the music together with people you did and didn't know. The best concerts were those where you were left sweaty from (slam)dancing with everyone in the pit on music that was even better-performed than on CD. Showing the experience afterwards was not really a thing that existed.

[cluckindan]

Thing is, if you are not a person who blends into the mass of ”normal”, you need to tell the story of your life. You already stick out like a sore thumb, and you need to explain to others why.

In other words, you need to be in control of your own narrative, or someone else will do it for you to fill the void. For example, someone can use cold reading to deduce what others suspect and fear and then paint you in that specific light, essentially planting individually targeted nasty rumours about you while increasing their rapport with others. That kind of rumours tend to spread.

Eventually you become the outcast in your social circles and you will be hard pressed to regain control of ”you” in the eyes of others.

[Silamoth]

I promise most people don’t care enough about you to spread rumors that paint you in a nasty light. If someone is doing that, you need to hang out with a new crowd and make some new friends. But most people have too much going on to care about you not being “normal”, if they even recognize your existence.

[lukan]

What? You absolutely don't need to tell the story of your life to be in control of it. Constantly worrying what other people will think of you, is how you loose control over your life, by not doing anymore the things you enjoy.

But yes, there are very confirmists circles and some will outcast you for not doing what everyone does - your choice for trying to still belong there or find a better group.

But if you really do what you want and you do it with confidence, you might find the conformists are suddenly coming back and think you are cool.

[kuerbel]

I can't play like Lang Lang. Only Lang Lang can play like Lang Lang. Just because some mfing AI can produce something that sounds like Lang Lang does not make it equal: resemblance is not identity.

If I see a performance from Lang Lang, I don't just perceive the sound, it is the expression of memory, discipline and attention. Learning an instrument is more than attaining the skill of producing the correct notes in the correct order. It shapes attention, perspective, patience, discipline, sensitivity and so much more. You can't replace that with effortless simulation. I mean you could, but it's practically meaningless.

[ben_w]

Sure, but because this argument works just as well whether "effortless simulation" means "GenAI" or "a recording", I don't know if you're objecting to one or the other or both.

[viccis]

Every talented pianist in a major conservatory can play like Lang Lang and are trying their best not to lmao

[kuerbel]

Haha, I get it. Just took him as an example because, in my experience, he is a famous pianist people recognise even if they don't listen to that kind of music. Maybe Vladimir Horowitz would be a better example.

[ChickeNES]

I think the average person has no idea who either of those people are. I think Liszt or Rachmaninov would be better reference points.

[cluckindan]

The average person sees a synthesizer keyboard and thinks ”piano”.

[tardedmeme]

https://xkcd.com/2501/

[FrontierProject]

As an average person, try Beethoven or Mozart.

[nineteen999]

Or Bach.

[sevenzero]

>we need to stop filming people

As live music enjoyer and person that was commonly around safe spaces in the techno scene I cant agree more. Fuck filming people.

[kolektiv]

It's not even just music anymore. I love motor racing, but at the last meeting I went to, sat in the stands at an iconic first corner, tense with anticipation as the race started... Everyone around me sat there holding their phones up, filming it. I couldn't even see properly because of the forest of arms. People don't just... experience... something now.

What's even more ridiculous is that this wasn't a small race - it was filmed, and broadcast live. Their many, many camera angles and drone shots and everything else are superb, much better than your phone would be. It's on YouTube live and available years later. Why do this? It made me so sad.

[csomar]

They are going to the event in order to broadcast to their friends (or their profile feed) that they have gone to the events. Once I understood this, it made sense why filming is the most important thing for them in the event. They are not there for the race.

Glad I left social media (if you don't count HN). It'll be almost a decade soon since I deleted all my accounts.

[sevenzero]

Its mostly about sharing it with friends and social media. I dont know why these people feel the need to do this either. The healthiest thing I did last year was quitting all (common) social media platforms like Instagram, reddit and stuff like that. Life is much slower and I dont feel the need to check my phone every few minutes anymore (I barely posted anything anyway).

I guess people are addicted to new notifications. They are lonely and drawn to human interactions and attention through social media because they are incapable of getting it through real life.

[mcv]

I guess people want to prove they were authentically there, experiencing it themselves instead of watching it on TV. And I sort of get it. When I'm on vacation, I like making my own photos of everything, even if professional photographers have already made hundreds of far better photos of it. Somehow the ones I made mean more to me. And I don't even share those photos on social media.

So on the one hand making your own photos and movies at events is less authentic than just experiencing it, and yet at the same time more authentic than relying on professionals to film it for you.

[microtonal]

When I'm on vacation, I like making my own photos of everything, even if professional photographers have already made hundreds of far better photos of it.

I have found when looking a photos from 20 years ago, I skip most of the shots of only landscapes, buildings, etc. The only interesting shots are shots with the people that I travelled with in them. They bring back all the fond memories, the things we did together, etc.

So I now, when making pictures of sceneries try to do it as much with my fellow travelers in them.

As you say, others can make better pictures of the scenery.

[darkwater]

Totally! And as a kid of a family who mostly took pictures of the monuments and landscapes, it hurts a lot to just see 3-4 pictures with us in it out of 24 (or 25-26 if you were lucky).

I still take pictures of monuments, or the sky, or the landscape nowadays with my phone, at least trying from some unusual or less common perspective, but I do take a lot of pictures of my family as well, especially in day to day moments. And print them, from time to time, in physical albums. It's just so different.

[bluGill]

I try to make memories. While you are correct that the people are what make the vacation, the time getting everyone to pose for a picture is wasting time they could use to make memories. Even if you are getting an action shot (and thus now posed) you could be out there playing with them instead.

Nothing with with a few photos. However make sure you are making memories not just getting photos of someone else.

[wiseowise]

And I can guarantee that most of them won't rewatch it.

[dlahoda]

Phoning like that damages their brains for sure.

Hope there will be research.

[gitgud]

> we need to stop filming people, and we need a societal norm that treats a violation of this ban on par with spitting someone in the face.

Agreed. Filming strangers in public is making everyone scared to have fun trying anything new, as they’re afraid of online mockery…

[fabianholzer]

> What we don't need to do is to give everybody a Fisher Price toy with a "make it sound awesome" button.

A sincere thank you for this metaphor.

[hununu]

This is really hard these days because up and coming artists can only do so nowadays via social media. In practical terms it means musicians if they want to succeed they need to be good at music AND self promotion through social media.

While theoretically access to everyone has been democratized when compared to music labels of the past since everyone can put their music on Spotify and social media, effectively that also means social media is now a required skill besides musicianship.

It's harder than ever to create your own thing and stay on track. I think this is why so many people are going bonkers with angine de poitrine for example.

[fullstop]

First of all, I 100% agree with you. With that in mind, do things like AutoTune now feel more like creative tools when compared to AI?