[manmal]

In some European countries, you can actually go on welfare and never work again. It takes some tricks because the state doesn’t like it; and maybe you‘ll want to do some undeclared side jobs for 15h a week and you’ll be comfortable.

I don’t know how such people can live with themselves. But apparently, if you’re immune to the second factor, it is possible, nowadays, to work 15h or less, without any wealth, and lead a good life.

The only thing threatening this status quo is corporations and rich people pulling their wealth into other states; and related, being net importers. I don’t understand why the EU is allowing this to happen. They should grow some teeth finally.

[simulator5g]

Oh sure, you get free stuff indefinitely if you abuse the system. You sound like that tiktok post about the "infinite free money glitch" that is check fraud.

[rhubarbtree]

Interestingly, this is how a lot of rich people make their money. They do something bad and then get the state to bail them out. For example, bankers trading recklessly, taking the bonuses and then leaving govt to sort out the mess, effectively back-paying their bonuses.

Another example is privatisation in the UK: scrap all investment, load the company with debt, leave the consumer and govt to sort out the mess.

So the rich do it too, just on a much grander scale.

[rexpop]

> The net of law is spread so wide, \ No sinner from its sweep may hide. \ Its meshes are so fine and strong, \ They take in every child of wrong. \ O wondrous web of mystery! \ Big fish alone escape from thee!

-- James Jeffrey Roche (1847 - 1908)

[manmal]

And? Try doing that 200y ago. There was no system to exploit. The system exists because progress has made it possible.

[tasuki]

> it is possible, nowadays, to work 15h or less, without any wealth, and lead a good life.

This is possible even without welfare.

Some friends of mine choose to do this: live in a shared flat, no car, no kids, it's easily doable. They live a good live and are happy.

(Let me add that I'm forty)

[yladiz]

Which European countries?

[Ekaros]

"Good" life might be bit questionable. But Finland at least it is possible. Existence will be meagre without other cashflows in cash. Might even be okay if you can make proper amount of cash.

[manmal]

I did mention that some side job is required for a good life. 15h certainly enough. Once AGI is here that might be our future.

[FullMetalBitch]

Spain for example: https://imv.seg-social.es/

[testing22321]

Australia no problem. Most liberal welfare in the world

[stephen_g]

Unemployment (JobSeeker payment) is actually pretty brutal here, we have a thing called ‘mutual obligation requirements’ where you have to go to meetings with (very ineffective but extremely profitable) private job service providers who force you to apply for enough jobs per week (no matter if they’re relevant or not).

Decades ago there was what I have read was an extremely effective Government department called the ’Commonwealth Employment Services’ but that was disbanded and contracts handed to private firms for excuses like “efficiency” that (surprise) didn’t end up panning out.

[November_Echo]

> Australia no problem. Most liberal welfare in the world

Jobseeker is a maximum of $26k per year, but for most people it's going to be around $21k [1]. What else are you using supplement that because that feels like it would be close to the poverty line.

1: https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/how-much-jobseeker-paym...

[stephen_g]

It’s not close to the poverty line, it’s well under it (remember this is AUD not USD) and has been for decades!

[testing22321]

Live 4 people in a share house and surf all day.