[elektronika]

Watches are the commodity of choice for corruption in some circles. I know people in jewelry and a significant portion of their transactions are watches to Chinese businessmen, formerly through Hong Kong, now through Singapore. They're high value items with razor thin margins.

[solenoid0937]

I collect watches worth >$100k and I promise you that most collectors in this range are just watch nerds that have more money than they know what to do with.

Singapore is a big watch market because it has a very tight knit and wealthy collector community.

Margins on most watches in this range are around 10% on the low end. I wouldn't call that razor thin.

[derefr]

Collectors are the end buyers, who ultimately create the value; but the existence of collectors as a predictable sink, permits the trading of the thing they collect as a medium of exchange and (short-term) store of value.

Similar to fine art. For every purchase of a painting by a collector who's actually going to display it, there are 10-100 being purchased by people who're going to keep them in freeport awaiting resale.

Basically like commodities futures. You don't buy onion futures because you have anything you would personally do with multiple tonnes of onions.

[cwsx]

What's the appeal of collecting high priced watches? Is it kind of like art collections, where its a decent store of value while maintaining a collection of something you are personally interested in? Or is it more for "love of the game"?

Not saying its not a cool thing to collect, well made watches are a very cool piece of engineering, I'm just curious if there's any "special" appeal outside of "i like this thing and have the money to enjoy it" :)

[geocar]

> What's the appeal of collecting high priced watches?

You can carry them on your person through airports and other places reasonably unmolested in a way carrying a bunch of cash isn't so easy.

> Is it kind of like art collections, where its a decent store of value

Art doesn't store value: It trades whatever number the parties exchanging it want it to have, so those parties can manipulate their total annual revenues, which might be confused with value if you cannot think of why else someone would want to tell other people they made more or less money in a year, but is not valuable to anyone else.

[skeledrew]

> It trades whatever number the parties exchanging it want it to have

I'd argue that that's the very definition of (economic) value. Someone puts a cost on a good/service, and someone who values and can satisfy the cost gets said good/service.

[geocar]

Sure it is, but that's not a way to store value (what economists specifically call store of value if you want to read more about it), which is a little different:

If you buy a €100k rolex, you probably can't be sure you can sell it for more than €100k anywhere at anytime in the future.

You probably can't even find a bank that would take that €100k rolex you just bought as collateral for €500k on a 30y mortgage.

That's why a €1m watch collection is never going to be worth €1m unless we're talking raw materials.

[embedding-shape]

> > What's the appeal of collecting high priced watches?

> You can carry them on your person through airports and other places reasonably unmolested in a way carrying a bunch of cash isn't so easy.

Now I have to ask, why do you need to carry a bunch of cash through airports, and why so often that you need a method of doing so?

I'm of course assuming you're doing this for legal reasons, I understand all the reasoning for less legal ones, but then that's hardly comparable to the original question, so I think this is a fair assumption.

[throwaway2037]

    > What's the appeal of collecting high priced watches?

It is the same reason that women collect high priced handbags. Men and women use these items to signal their wealth and status (in public).

[solenoid0937]

Sure, some people use them to signal status but I'd say the vast majority of the collector community does not buy expensive watches for that reason.

At the $100k range you get a lot of things that appeal to a watch enthusiast: true high-horology hand finishing (like handmade anglage and sharp interior angles), some of the more advanced complications, more interesting escapements, etc.

[solenoid0937]

> Or is it more for "love of the game"?

More this. I love wearing what are basically highly complex, mechanical works of art on my wrist. It appeals to both the engineer/nerd and the romantic inside me.

Some watches hold value, others don't. I have some watches that have halved, others that have doubled. But I don't really intend to sell so it's immaterial.

[victorbjorklund]

Obviously, per definition a collector is probably a watch nerd.

But I think the point is that if I want to transport money from one country to another, I can buy a watch for 30k, take it to the other country, and sell it to a collector relatively easy for probably the same amount of money.

Same if I wanna give a bribe to somebody, I can give them a watch for worth 30K and they can easily sell it for cash to a collector for 30K.

So that person would not be a collector. They would just use it to transfer the value.

[coldpie]

> I collect watches worth >$100k

It's off topic for this thread, but I'd totally read a blog post about that hobby :)

[greenavocado]

What people can actually do is buy a watch then return it in another branch in another country after paying a "restocking" fee.

[solenoid0937]

If you're buying new, there is almost no dealer on the planet that will let you return watches this expensive. They lose so much value the moment you put them on.

I say "almost" no dealer because some domestic dealers have a 24-48h return policy but they are pretty strict about these things and care way more about their business than any money laundering attempt. They will be very suspicious of you buying in one country and asking for a return label from another.

[elektronika]

It's very blatant and below that range. They got many orders for the exact same model that's around $50k.

[qingcharles]

Most of the time you can wear a watch through customs and move $250K without anyone blinking an eyelid. If it has a box and papers you mail those ahead of you. (Don't have them in your luggage)