[wg0]

That's deliberate. US AI companies have no chance of recouping even fraction of their valuations.

PS: Have not tried this but Deepseev4 Flash (not even Deepseekv4 Pro version) with set to "high" has pretty much Claud Opus 4.7 level of capabilities and is lightening fast and dirty cheap. Hours and hours of conversation barely costs few cents.

[bel8]

DeepSeek Flash on high (not max) is a freak of nature indeed.

Very disproportionate intelligence-to-cost ratio.

I'm leveraging this temporary anomaly and using it as my coding workhorse.

[fgonzag]

The weights are open and when prices settle down again will be runnable with less than 10k of hardware.

I can easily run it in a 8 bit quant with the 4 x 48GB Radeon Pro W7900 GPUs I snagged for 2k each before the memory squeeze.

A 158B parameter model, especially in an architecture as efficient as DS4 is not that hard to drive currently if you got in before the craze, and will be relatively easy to drive with future hardware generations.

[UncleOxidant]

Doesn't DeepSeek-V4-Flash have 284B parameters?

[fgonzag]

You are correct.

[binary132]

what makes you so confident it’s temporary

[giwook]

> US AI companies have no chance of recouping even fraction of their valuations.

A big caveat here is that many US companies (particularly in sensitive industries, like defense) will likely not want to (or not be allowed to) use Chinese models for anything of substance.

[syntaxing]

What about self host Chinese models?

[giwook]

Definitely more leeway there IMO. But the optics aren't ideal as someone mentioned. And unfortunately, optics is more important than it should be sometimes.

[monster_truck]

Still no.

[elboru]

Why?

[carimura]

trust, optics, laws

[Haven880]

USA is as censored as what we believe about China. You will get cancelled by Americans if you use "communist" stuff. That is why hardly any Chinese EVs in USA. Because it is communists stuff. The odd thing is iphone is made in China. So it is more of selective enforcement when convenience. Chinese AI even self host means your will influence by communism. You want McCarthy era back again?

[giwook]

Massive overgeneralization and hyperbole.

You're referring to a very small subset of the American population. It's ironic because you seem to be claiming Americans are closed-minded here but I think that may actually describe your mindset as well.

[dgacmu]

Chinese EV policy in the US is about propping up our auto industry despite its best efforts to lose the EV battle. This has nothing to do with "communism", it's a purely economic thing that ties into internal US voting blocs.

[Arcuru]

I am very happy with DSv4 for their price/performance but neither of them are comparable to Opus.

[tartoran]

But they're overall a good thing for us consumers even if we'll never use these models, it forces the prices down all around.

[chillfox]

Yeah, I really like and use DSv4Pro for personal projects, but I also use Opus all the time at work and they are definitively not at the same level.

I can only conclude that people who claim they are aren't doing anything close to the edge of what these models are capable of or any niche things.

I would say DSv4Pro is around the same level as Sonnet.

[surgical_fire]

I have been using DeepSeek API within Claude Code. So far it has been legitimately superior to Claude, and Codex that I used before.

[giwook]

Anecdotal evidence is nice but hard to take seriously given the myriad variables at play here.