[quantified]

Being forced to move in the middle of the school year because the owner want to sell the house kind of sucks, though 5 years of a month-to-month was a bad idea. More landlords are asswipes than not, being able to control your own destiny has advantages. After all, you are paying all of the costs plus a premium for the rental, and you don't even get the paint or floor covering you want, let alone nice things.

[em-bee]

that's the nice thing about renting in germany. there this would not work, the owner can sell the house but they can't kick out the tenant. so whoever is buying is taking over the tenant. and while you can ask a tenant to move out if you need the house for yourself, that too has to consider the needs of the tenant. if they have kids in school it is almost impossible to remove them unless you go out of your way to help them find a new place and they are not forced to switch schools.

[lnsru]

That’s a very nice theory. Decent real estate first buyer will not even consider rented property. But there are enough unscrupulous shady people who will buy the property at a great discount and get the tenants out. You will be right according the law, but still mistreated. Will you enjoy abuse waiting 3 years for a court? Probably not. It’s not their first rodeo.

[em-bee]

most rented property in germany is owned by large firms who make renting out homes their business. for them, that is not an issue. most homes that people buy for themselves are not even available on the rental market. as you say, people who want to buy a home for themselves will not consider rented property. i believe that is true in germany too. if it happens then it is a rare edgecase, and they will be able to find out in advance if the tenant is willing/able to move out.

[quantified]

When you inherit property, it comes however it comes. I've been displaced twice by heirs. A lot of rental houses in the Bay Area are second/empty nests.

[vel0city]

Is the landlord obligated to renew the lease at the end in perpetuity? Or does the landlord just need to wait for the lease to expire and then choose to not renew?

[em-bee]

in germany by law every lease for private homes is always in perpetuity. the concept of renewal does not even exist. it is always month to month until the tenant decides to move out. you can't not renew a lease. you can raise the rent, but only in small steps. exceptions are if the tenant fails to pay for a few months, damages the property or misbehaves in other ways.

[bigstrat2003]

That sounds like a really awful law, TBH. I would never rent to someone if it meant that I was powerless to decide to end the relationship. I'm all for protecting tenants to some extent, but that law strikes me as abusive of the landowner.

[em-bee]

see my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48286641

i don't agree that it is abuse of the landowner, but you also have to consider that in germany private landowners renting out are extremely rare. always have been. maintaining rental properties was always a business.

as an individual home owner i would also not want to rent out either unless there are exceptional circumstances. but german cities do not have suburbs like in the US, and any popular area will build up multi tenant apartment blocks. people owning their own house are out in the countryside where noone wants to rent anyways. and any multitenant building is by definition a business. and that's the majority of all rental properties in germany.

you have to keep in mind that germany has the highest ratio of people renting vs owning. renting has become our culture. with so many people renting, laws have to be strict, otherwise we would have chaos. austria is similar. my mother in vienna lives in an apartment that has been rented by someone in our family since 150 years ago.

[vel0city]

> any multitenant building is by definition a business

Not inherently so, at least in the US. Lots of multi-family structures in the US have multiple independent owners of their own spaces. Townhouses, condos, and the like are often a collection of individually owned spaces with their own deeds and property rights. There is usually a shared organization, such as an HOA, that is in charge of the management of the joint property. This isn't really a "business" though, it doesn't look to make a profit and is chaired by residents.

For instance:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/211-Autumn-Pass-211-San-A...

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6205-Thomas-Dr-UNIT-F2-Pa...

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/121-121-Beach-St-803-Bost...

As an American it just seems strange to me to have people paying a corporation for the same home for 150 years and still have no real ownership stake in it. Like, over 150 years, wouldn't your family have paid many, many times the actual value of the property?

[vineyardmike]

Or you need to have decent tenant protection laws.

In SF, you can’t evict tenants because you sell the house, and you can’t evict tenants with kids during the school year (without a just cause).

[hawaiianbrah]

If the buyer wants to move in, isn’t that a just cause for eviction? If the new buyer just wants it as a rental, sure, carry on.

[elzbardico]

"Oh no!!! but this is communism!!!!!"

Said by the same people who asks: "Why the young are not having children?"