[somenameforme]

China's GDP to debt ratio is lower than the US' while continuing to have a rapidly growing economy, whereas US growth is not only significantly less but trending downward. About 17% of Chinese GDP is accounted for by government spending, in the US it's now up to 36%. And bond yields for China are dramatically lower than in the US, meaning all of their debt also comes way cheaper.

Claiming they're headed for economic catastrophe is rather the same sort of claim as you were making above - okay, they're headed for economic catastrophe but have some of the best economic metrics relative to other major economic powers, in much the same way that they have "laughably low" consumption of EVs yet purchase more EVs than anywhere else in the world.

[ShinyLeftPad]

This is not the best metrics for many reasons, and the actual spending is more than 30% (with higher share going to manufacturing vs. households compared to western countries), and government deficit relative to GDP is higher than in the US, but we go way off topic. I am glad you agree that comparing Chinese EVs by price to European ones is pointless though.

[somenameforme]

These are not numbers solely from China, they are measured by third parties. They're certainly at least as reliable as the numbers I'm citing for the US.

And the entire point here is that comparing Chinese to European EVs by price is completely reasonable. There's a reason that Chinese EVs are taking over the world and European EVs are essentially unheard of, and price is definitely a big part of that.

China is, again, very much like the US in the 50s-60s - a complete manufacturing behemoth with a tiny cost of living and tremendous economic opportunity which all adds up to creating an amazing situation for people (and the world at large). They just need to avoid the trap the US fell into some decades later.

[ShinyLeftPad]

> There's a reason that Chinese EVs are taking over the world and European EVs are essentially unheard of, and price is definitely a big part of that

Sorry can't take this seriously anymore. By your logic if I give you a shitty laptop for $1 because I would literally have to trash it otherwise you therefore say it's 1000000% better than a Macbook because it's so cheap. Pretty much says it all.

[somenameforme]

BYDs aren't just cheap, they're also great cars. Western economies have become extremely dysfunctional, probably in large part due to everything being run by bottom feeder MBAs who can't see beyond the tip of their noses. It's not only possible to have cheap+good, but I think ultimately necessary for a healthy economy.

[ShinyLeftPad]

If you are not comparing by price then what's the point of this? I only replied "don't compare by price" because it seems like the original comment was doing it and it is a very common mistake. If you are correctly comparing a cheap Chinese car with an expensive EU car then you are not making that mistake.

[somenameforme]

I still don't get what you're trying to argue. Price obviously matters. If two cars offer even remotely comparable value and one is priced at $10k and the other is priced at $50k then the latter is going to play basically no role in the global market, or even domestic if our $10k car isn't banned.

We might look at something like Aston Martin. They make great cars, but they're very expensive and not that much nicer than just a 'regular' car. As a result, the company is now on the verge of bankruptcy. And BYD (and Chinese companies more generally) are essentially doing the same thing to those 'regular' cars that they did to Aston Martin, to say nothing of other EVs. If the West can't relearn how to produce cheap + high quality, then we will have no role in the economy of the future, at least not if China maintains on its current trajectory.