[thaumasiotes]

> It won't increase their visibility, obviously. It will make them think twice before going on that crosswalk.

Meanwhile in Shanghai, it tends to be a little too difficult to cross an entire street at once, so the way you cross is lane by lane, as if you were playing Frogger. (Except that you'll rest on lane dividers as opposed to right in the middle of a lane.)

Pedestrians getting run over while doing this is not a noticeable problem.

[tstrimple]

Not a noticeable problem because they are Chinese and there are so many of them it doesn't matter if 4k die while trying to cross at crosswalks?

https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/how-dangerous-are-china...

[iamalizard]

How does it compare to other countries, though? 4000 is high, but it's out of 1400000000.

[tstrimple]

I think this perfectly illustrates the difference between you and me. You think there is nothing wrong with the untimely death of literally thousands of people because there are millions more who look just like them. I expect more of humanity.

[iamalizard]

My point was different. I was just trying to compare China to other countries. If you just say "4000 dead per year", it seems awful. And it is - I agree. But in a country with 14 million people (instead of 1.4 billion in China; 100x less) we'll see a headline like "40 dead per year" (100x less). We might not bat an eye to that number. We should think in terms of probability or in terms of ratios like [dead people]/[all people].

We should try to bring that number (4000 or 40) down but if it's happens to be a very unlikely cause of death, maybe we should focus on more pressing things. Not ignore the 4000 (out of 1.4 billion), of course, just put it in perspective. I'm sure much more people in China die from other easily-preventable deaths. Road-related deaths are much more graphic and frightening than deaths from things like the quality of our food and water, contaminants in paints and construction materials, air pollution, infections, diabetes, cancer and so on. Most such deaths are not graphic, you won't see them on kaotic, but are usually far longer, painful and disturbing for the person and family.

To offer a personal rebuttal to you saying I don't care about those people as there are many that look like them, I love the saying "if you help a stray animal, you won't make a dent in the whole situation of helpless stray animals but you'll have changed that animal's life completely". So yes, 1 person or animal matters a lot. I've moved snails from the sidewalk back into the grass so they don't get stepped on. Likely billions of snails are getting crushed every year and what I do is not sustainable, but I still do it.

[thaumasiotes]

4000 is also hugely exaggerated. The link specifies that almost 4000 Chinese pedestrians were killed, in all of China, between 2014 and 2017.

[ShinyLeftPad]

When I was in China I got nearly run over walking on green light because someone decided they were in a rush and run a red. It's apparently socially acceptable if you have enough money to afford the fines and you honk your horn while doing it. Unregulated crossings are another level of rolling the dice.