[hks0]

A friend of mine started "blowing air into water with an straw" (making bubbles) very seriously. I was very skeptical to say the least; but after a couple of months the effects have been very eye opening. Not only it has helped sleep apnea and snoring but also helped with reducing their weight. They had an online group and most participants reported the same. The wight loss was reverted when they stopped for some personal reasons. I wonder if making bubbles in the water has the same effect.

[LPisGood]

I don’t mean to be rude, but what kind of personal reasons might stop a person from breathing into a straw at night

[N_Lens]

Probably summoning a fish demon.

[dmos62]

Made me laugh. Thank you.

[hks0]

Depression

[yuppiepuppie]

They objected to the Paper Straw Mandate

[Roark66]

A very good reason. I refuse to use paper straws. They are disgusting (it feels like sucking on a piece of printer paper).

Don't get me wrong. I try to remove plastics in all areas of my life as well (because of microplastics), but can't they coat the surface in some biodegradable polymer like PHA/PBS?

Or if this is too expensive coat it with some beeswax at the very least...

[pegasus]

Try bamboo straws, they work very well and are as green as it gets.

[fuzzy_biscuit]

Aluminum straw is the clear and superior alternative

[mark_l_watson]

My didgeridoo teacher had the class practice at home continuously blowing air through a straw - it still took me almost half a year to reliably be able to do circular breathing.

I have read a few references that humming or ‘ohming’ help sinus health and breathing so I guess it makes sense playing the didgeridoo would help also. Blowing bubbles through a straw won’t cause vibration, so probably in itself won’t help.

[jcul]

Reminds me of that guy who started drinking water upside down to train his swallow muscles and cure his chronic heartburn.

[elric]

There's some science on training those muscles, even without upside down drinking. "Dry swallowing" while on an incline seems to do the trick just fine.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9550520/

[miek]

Thank you for posting this! I will give it a shot.

[hikarudo]

In Japan, I learned to drink water upside down to stop hiccups. Works for me, whereas drinking normally doesn't.

[brokenmachine]

I suck in a lungful of air, hold it in as long as I can, then when I can't hold it any more, suck in even more air. Basically take in as much air and hold as long as you can, and the extra gulps of air I think open up and "reset" your throat.

Sometimes it takes a couple of goes but it has always worked for me to get rid of hiccups.

[dallen33]

How do you get your body to be upside down?

[BenjiWiebe]

You bend over and curl your head towards your body.

[pbronez]

Did it work?

[ab71e5]

Is the weight loss just from sleeping better and therefore making better food choices?

[joshspankit]

Underrated question

Personally, when I have not slept well and need to be productive in a day, I’m much more likely to want to load up on sugar and unhealthy food

[throwaway173738]

I’m the same way. Getting good sleep is my best predictor of whether I’ll blow a weight loss attempt or skip exercise.

[reylas]

My Dr explained to me that proper sleep is important for the body to "reset" chemical balances and metabolism. It is still calories in vs out, but you are more likely to store the calories than burn them due to the "metabolic system" being out of whack due to poor sleep.

[n8henrie]

Almost certainly plays a role. Also increased activity levels due to better less fatigue.

Certainly is not defeating thermodynamics, assuming calorie absorption is not disrupted somehow it's likely the above.

[dloss]

My voice teacher had me blow air into water with a straw. Felt good and had some therapeutic effect on my vocal chords. Apparently the technique had been developed by a Finnish speech and voice therapist. Here is some background: https://www.laxvox.com/history/

[Traubenfuchs]

Can you please expand on that? How many times and minutes a day? Full power?

Got a link?

[hks0]

I asked them: twice a day, 10 minutes each. No need to put too much pressure, that is, no need to make yourself uncomfortable during practice. Weight loss & less snoring should appear within a few months ;)

[baddash]

same, my fat ass is ultra curious

[KellyCriterion]

I just made a test with one of the AI: It seems there is some evidence in there, sounds like mainly you are strengthening the muscles around your throat with that technique and this then can reduce sleap apnea a little bit.

[Salmoneo]

I saw a documentary where a vocal coach used a similar technique to help metal singers sing in a way that didn't destroy their throat and vocal chords

[nephihaha]

I do death metal growling at karaoke sometimes. It makes a nice change after the umpteenth Abba or Pink Pony Club rendition.

There is a technique to it. You have to sing from the chest not the throat.

[hks0]

Just learned from comments here it's called "circular breathing"!

[sigmoid10]

Just read how this works and tried it. A bit tricky at first but actually quite easy once you get the hang of it. And it's kind of a fun exercise. Now I'm wondering if I should get a Didgeridoo too.

[jbaber]

Yes. Someone who masters circular breathing in a weekend should start playing a wind instrument.

[sigmoid10]

What wind instrument do you play and how long did it take you to learn this technique?

[mindok]

50mm/2” PVC pipe with a bit of beeswax on the end to protect your lips is a quick way to test out whether you want to spend the time to track down a proper didgeridoo.

[mswphd]

circular breathing is useful for other instruments as well, though it's not typically a technique that's necessary until you get to fairly high levels.

[Ifkaluva]

Would you happen to have more information about this online group? Would love to join it!

[hks0]

Sadly the (non-english) whatsapp group is no longer available. There wasn't really more to it; you had to practice circular breathing daily and post an update. But the teacher wanted to create membership schemes and make extra money, so people left.

[joshspankit]

Someone really needs to properly do the science on this

I (presumably like the majority) assumed that sleep apnea was at least partially caused by weight gain, but if there is weight gain caused by sleep apnea it’s going to give doctors some new tools

[elric]

There is plenty of proper science on this. Weight gain does not cause obstructive sleep apnea until you get into extremes (e.g. huge necked bodybuilders or people with so much fat on their chest that they physically struggle to move it to breathe). Sleep apnea makes it harder to lose weight and easier to gain weight. Having sleep apnea and being heavier can make sleep apnea worse. Losing weight quickly can make sleep apnea worse when you lose muscle mass along side fat (e.g. on ozempic).

There are plenty of tools for doctors to treat sleep apnea. The problem is that they refuse to use them. Many people on CPAP would benefit greatly from being on BiPAP instead, but doctors commonly refuse to prescribe it. Some cases of sleep apnea can be treated using positional therapy (typically side sleeping), but there's no prescription for that. Some cases can be solved by exercising throat muscles (with or without a didgeridoo), but there's no prescription for that either, and there are virtually zero speech/physical therapists who focus on that. There are some surgeries that can really benefit some patients, but most sleep labs and ENTs refuse to even to even perform a proper sleep endoscopy.

[bobthepanda]

At least in the US my understanding is insurers don't generally support BiPAP because it's more expensive. Surgery costs more, has extended recovery time, is more risky, and is less effective at the broader population level; if it works, it may not work forever. For a lot of people, CPAP is good enough, and so it's currently the standard.

[elric]

BiPAP is only more expensive for artificial reasons. It's the same hardware just with a different algorithm. CPAP machines are around €/$500, BiPAP can be more than twice as much. But if you take into account that they last 5-10 years, and that my local hospital charges my insurance €90/month for leasing a CPAP device, it quickly becomes apparent how much of a cash grab that is.

Patient care should be at the top of the list, especially for something as important as sleep. But saving a few bucks in the short term seems to be more important. But people with improperly treated sleep apnea still suffer many of the same effects of people who aren't treated at all.

[bobthepanda]

For BiPAP i could buy that.

For surgery, it turns out there are higher rates of it being the improper treatment and partial or full failure, and you still might need CPAP anyways. And that’s on top of the fairly standard and obvious preference for non invasive treatments in general.

I will say a fairly non invasive surgery that is much easier to consider is fixing a deviated septum; it probably won’t fix your apnea, but it being deviated is probably not helping.

[elric]

I share your concerns about surgery. The way I understand it, the difficulty lies in choosing the right surgery (or surgeries) for the right patient. The supposed gold-standard diagnostic approach is a drug induced sleep endoscopy, where an ENT looks at your airway while you sleep. The problem is that being sedated is not the same as being asleep. It's possible to do this "right", but that is much more time consuming than just shooting people up with propofol and scoping them while they're knocked out.

One thing to keep in mind is that surgery might still be useful even if it doesn't get you off CPAP: being able to use lower CPAP pressures could increase comfort and adherence.

I've been putting off my own septoplasty because it all sounds extremely unpleasant, so yeah.

[elric]

Not sure why the other reply got downvoted to death. Commenter is right. The same motor seems to power resmed CPAP and resmed BiPAP. Haven't tried jailbreaking my own yet, but maybe I should give that a go.

[kjs3]

The idea people aren't doing 'proper science' on this is a spectacular level of oblivious. There's nothing in here that I haven't at some point had a discussion about with my sleep doc in the last 20 years (well, not specifically a didgeridoo, but circular breathing and other types of breath exercises, including 'straw breathing'). Yes, some people do loose weight when they get their apnea under control, among other health benefits. That also is not new, and it's not some sort of miracle insight that noone has considered.

[david-gpu]

I had textbook symptoms of sleep apnea with a BMI of 19, before I was diagnosed. The sleep tech told me bluntly that plenty of slim people, even children, develop sleep apnea.

Obesity increases the chance of developing sleep apnea, yes. But sleep apnea also increases the chance of becoming obese. It is not just a simple unidirectional cause and effect.

[tybstar]

Sounds like a semi-occluded vocal tract exercise, something that singers will do to strengthen the vocal folds and reduce tension.

[frankest]

CPAP machines are essentially a hose that has you breathe into water.

[httpsterio]

this is incorrect lol. the water is just to help with humidity, to prevent a dry mouth and sinuses. all resumed cpap machines for example can be used without the water tank as long as you have the backplate.

the water in the tank is heated to increase the humidity of the air circulating.

cpap machines work by increasing the air pressure on breath-ins and help open your airways by keeping your genioglossus tensor veli palatini muscles engaged.

[elric]

Kind of, yeah. When I first got onto CPAP I was worried that it would cause my muscles to atrophy over time because it makes the inhale so much easier. But the pressure is still there on the exhale, which is exactly like breathing out through a straw into water (with 5-20cm water on top of the straw, depending on the CPAP pressure).

[barrenko]

Seems related to our aquatic mammal past.