[encrypted_bird]

> Like there was something in the American DNA that was lacking in China

In most Americans' eyes, unfortunately, there was. It was just known by the name "American Exceptionalism". Yes, it's nonsense, but unfortunately it is nonsense that has historically been used by most empires throughout history, and believed just as fervently by said empires' populi since it's one of the central elements of imperialism as a whole.

[TurdF3rguson]

The US models are still better though, let's not get carried away. Ours are better, theirs are cheaper. That's how it's always been.

[TurdF3rguson]

Downvoters are being silly. If you want to make a case for American Exceptionalism being a hoax, that's fine. But don't use deepseek 4 pro (which is at 100 ELO or so below top models) to make that case. You have stronger arguments elsewhere.

Capishe?

[Kbelicius]

Downvoters aren't being silly, it's about you not considering the context of the discussion when writing your first reply. Deepseek wasn't mentioned once in this thread before your second post and AI was mentioned once in a list of different industries. Those should have been a clue to why your first post was downvoted. Basically, you wrote a non sequitur post and are surprised that it is being downvoted.

[TurdF3rguson]

Um, take a break between bong hits to read the thread title pal: "DeepSeek makes the V4 Pro price discount permanent". I don't know what you thought we were discussing, puff the magic dragons perhaps? Lol.

Seriously though, take a hike if you can't be bothered to read things.

[zaptheimpaler]

DS4 is open weights so it could even be run free in quantized forms, is 10x cheaper than Opus and performs basically as well in most real world tasks. No one cares about benchmarks. In practical terms, it’s obviously a better option in most cases.

You’re defining “better” is “absolute best at any cost” instead of the more balanced price/performance considerations consumers actually take, so you can declare America #1 again. In a practical sense DS4 is so much cheaper at similar quality that it’s better in most cases. If i can throw 10x the tokens at the same problem at slightly lower quality, i can probably do a better job.

[trick-or-treat]

ELO is an absolute rating. You could make a claim about some unknown GM being "better" than Magnus Carlsen because his appearance fee is cheaper, but obviously nobody would take you seriously.

There is a best model, and then there is what you can afford. Call that the "better value" or something if you must, but calling it the "better" model is clearly spreading a falsehood.

[trick-or-treat]

imagine if being liberal meant pretending weaker Chinese models are better than US models as a form of virtue signaling?

We failed you somehow, kids. I'm not sure where, but we failed you.