[roncesvalles]

>Like there was something in the American DNA that was lacking in China and innovation would always need to happen here.

There is (was): attracting the best minds around the world to a free and stable society. Trump voters threw it all away because they couldn't stand non-whites coming to America and doing better than old stock Americans.

[DaSHacka]

> attracting the best minds around the world to a free and stable society.

China is comprised of ~91.5% ethnically Chinese citizens. [0]

> Tump voters threw it all away because they couldn't stand non-whites coming to America and doing better than old stock Americans.

The U.S. is more diverse than it's ever been [1], and under Trump we're still below the deportations of Obama's terms.

Sounds like open-borders immigration was never necessary in the first place, given that we're being beat by a country with a similar demographic skew that we had like 80 years ago. Coincidentally, when we arguably had our best economic opportunities for citizens. Who'da thunk.

Clearly, the only solution to our fading relevance is opening the border again and importing 500 million more ""doctors and engineers"" all the while China is investing in their *actual* doctors and engineers, and has extremely strict immigration policies [2].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_China

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_d...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China#Population_policies

[roncesvalles]

You're conflating Mexican border hoppers with skilled immigrants.

I'm absolutely opposed to illegal immigration and have a more extreme position on how to deal with it than most Americans.

What I'm irked by are Trump's attacks on legal immigration and the general worsening of the environment. ICE's kidnappings, the 100k H-1B fee, and the recent Green Card thing have deeply eroded America's attractiveness to legal immigrants.

I think when MAGA came after H-1Bs, it became pretty clear that it's not about law and order, it's just a race thing.

And if you want to go gloves off, I'll just say it: the main problem in America is that its 3 major ethnic groups are infected by anti-intellectualism and slothfulness, whereas the Chinese and various other cultures are not. The direct benefit from skilled immigration is so that we can increase the ratio of people who actually value education and hard work vs the failing old stock Americans whose broccoli-headed kids dream of becoming YouTube influencers instead of astronauts.

[CuriouslyC]

H1-Bs are the most egregious example, because they're 100% used as a way to undercut/replace American talent. The irony is that the typical border hopper is working jobs Americans don't want, for wages Americans wouldn't take, and they keep a low profile to avoid getting deported.

The desire to be influencers isn't as boneheaded as you think, in a future where AI is solving the hardest technical challenges, the ability to get attention and create community is the last frontier. Influencers and salesmen will be eating good when scientists and engineers are derelict.

[SmirkingRevenge]

> The U.S. is more diverse than it's ever been [1], and under Trump we're still below the deportations of Obama's terms.

Ethnic diversity is neither really here nor there in terms of the measurable needs that immigration fulfills. Immigration keeps economic and population growth rates trending up. Having high skilled immigration to bolster science and research is nice, but it's still mainly about the growth.

Yea, Obama deported lots of people, but even then we still had net positive migration. Now under Trump, we have net negative migration for the first time in decades. The very public terror campaign waged by the Trump admin was in part to deter immigration in the first place.

> Sounds like open-borders immigration was never necessary in the first place, given that we're being beat by a country with a similar demographic skew that we had like 80 years ago.

1) Economic growth is possible with stagnating/declining population levels if you overcome those deficits with commensurate increases in productivity per capita. Otherwise, you're cooked.

2) The US is actually far more productive per capita than China - in fact, the US is one of the best in the world, as far as that goes.

With those points in mind, we can begin to see why China has an easier time growing economically with little immigration. The US has a much harder time doing the same. We need more population, since it's just harder to squeeze more productivity out of our already very productive workforce.

Once China achieves similar productivity levels, they will need to rely more on growing the population.

We were actually on track to catch up to China's population levels in a few of decades (thanks to immigration). So unless China successfully pivoted to mass immigration or expansionism, the US was likely to remain dominant - easily so - for the foreseeable future.

That's why the MAGA anti-immigration push is so tragically stupid and suicidal (if it persists). They're killing America's golden goose.

As an aside: I wish the "open borders" canard would die. We've never had open-borders immigration in recent history. Definitely not since 9/11. Not even under Biden. Border laws were enforced. Biden has the same apprehension rate at the border as both Trump and Obama.

[avadodin]

That's such a gross misrepresentation of reality.

First of all, the only group of immigrants targeted by the admin are those critical of certain middle eastern regime.

Republican racists mainly care about the immigrants that do not take their middle-class jobs anyways.

Anti-Indian hate is restricted to a minority of software engineers and anti-Chinese hate is virtually non-existent.

I do believe it is idiotic to have your universities full of Chinese, your manufacturing in China and, at the same time, treat China as a geopolitical enemy.