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by nananana9 26 days ago
I cannot describe to you how jealous I am of the fact that back then writing a few thousand lines of assembly was what it took to launch a successful software company.
8 comments

>writing a few thousand lines of assembly was what it took to launch a successful software company.

Yes, but that assembly was not DOS, and it wasn’t easy.

Microsoft purchased the DOS code, they didn’t write it. Of course, they did develop and modify DOS. But that was a clever (and lucky) business deal, not a technological accomplishment.

The real beginning of Microsoft was earlier, with Allen, Gates and Davidoff writing the Altair BASIC interpreter. That was a serious achievement.

They had never seen the computer they were writing that assembly code for. They did not even own any computers. It took them 8 weeks on a university computer they were not supposed to be using for that

“Altair agreed to meet them to possibly buy a BASIC interpreter… Gates and Allen had neither a BASIC interpreter nor even an Altair system on which to develop and test one. However, Allen had written an Intel 8008 emulator that ran on a PDP-10 time-sharing computer. Allen adapted this emulator based on the Altair programmer guide, and they developed and tested the interpreter on Harvard's PDP-10.

The finished interpreter, including its own I/O system and line editor, fit in only four kilobytes of memory, leaving plenty of room for the interpreted program. In preparation for the demo, they stored the finished interpreter on a punched tape that the Altair could read, and Paul Allen flew to Albuquerque to meet with Altair…

While on final approach into the Albuquerque airport, Allen realized that they had forgotten to write a bootloader to read the tape into memory. Writing in 8080 machine language, Allen finished the program before the plane landed. Only when they loaded the program onto an Altair and saw a prompt asking for the system's memory size did Gates and Allen know that their interpreter worked on the Altair hardware.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altair_BASIC

Imagine if the University had sued for their share of the IP and that was created using their resources…

It’s funny because I thought Jobs/Wozinak got their initial funding from selling phreaking boxes. And more recently, Anthropic engaged in criminal copyright violations with only a slap on the wrist.

Feels like a common theme of every “great” company having its origins from a “boost” resulting from criminal activity. (After all, that’s where the money is!)

Just imagine the criminal penalties possible for pirating and selling one copy of a movie or making one long distance phone call with phreaking.

In the case of Microsoft, I'm not seeing it.

Being born into a 1% household and understanding the asymmetric upside that having the money and the time to speculate is far more significant than the civil and criminal legal violations on the way.

The most common way to go from one-percenter rich to .001% rich is to already have enough wealthy people generating capital in your personal network that you can raise capital on sweetheart terms to buy the labor of people who don't.

Then you sell it at a massive premium and repeat.

I think it's empirically dubious to identify the UW mainframes as the secret sauce instead of "being able to ask your mom for a meeting with the chairman of IBM followed by asking her for 80,000 dollars ASAP."

If the original creators of DOS were born into a wealthy family and on a first name basis with the chairman of IBM, do you think they would've sold it to Gates?

Trying to attribute the tech business "founding crime" feels like displacement for what is perfectly legal and accepted cultural practice.

I think you overstate the power of money. Of course it helps. But it’s far from everything. Just look at the number of rich kid fuckups or CEOs with poor backgrounds. It’s just one component that smooths risk and occasionally provides a starter network, but it’s not everything.
Having money doesn't mean you will do anything, but not having it can stop you doing all sorts of things.
>CEOs with poor backgrounds.

What's the percentage here?

.
roughly 50% i guess
Well of course. To be a CEO from a poor background, you need to work your ass off making wealthy friends early.

That's why going to an elite school is such a lifeline for people from bottom quartile backgrounds. Getting the opportunity socialize with people born at the top and be treated as a peer in an institutional environment is invaluable. That alone is worth the price of admission.

It doesn't have to be your parents, but it has to be someone with money who already knows you, trusts you, and feels like you identify with them and their interests.

Of course, you could also work your way up slowly and prove your mettle through decades of dedicated service to your employer. But I'm not sure how you'd be able to build that long track record of likability and trust to be able to raise millions based on work history when that entire history is a 3 month internship.

One can't even blame the VCs. If you're investing in things that are often partially fraudulent by design...

...do you want the getaway driver for the pump-and-dump to be a family friend you've known a long time, or a stranger that might not be a good "culture fit" for what the valuation game often becomes?

> One can't even blame the VCs. If you're investing in things that are often partially fraudulent by design...

I mean, we can blame them from systematically investing in things fraudulent by design.

> Just look at the number of rich kid fuckups or

I mean, rich kid fuckup still end up pretty good, unless they are full on addicts who committed robbery. And even then they get much better and qualified defense layer - ending with much lower punishment. But normally, they get a pretty good job through parents network and somehow muddle through.

> CEOs with poor backgrounds.

Statistically, upward mobility is low these days, people stay where they are born. So, I think that statistically there are not that many of those.

> followed by asking her for 80,000 dollars ASAP

What real life example is this from?

https://www.filfre.net/2012/05/the-ibm-pc-part-3/

None actually, because I didn't recall the original amount correctly and I failed to correct for inflation, and Microsoft was already doing pretty well at that point. That was inaccurate to say.

It does make you think, though. If you too are able to work hard and build an operating system or save up six figures corrected for inflation, that still doesn't get you anything. What you really need is for your mother to be a good friend and socio-economic equal of chair of IBM.

We need a better system. We tried communism and that was shit, so this is the least bad system we have.
It would be difficult for us as humans to get a better system. we are too chaotic
Automation makes full employment detrimental if not outright impossible.

Say before tractors it took 100 men to farm enough for 1000 people.

With tractors 20 men can farm for 1000.

With automation 1 man can farm for 1000 if not significantly more.

Open Source Robo Communism is the way to go imo. Sure a handful of engineers have to maintain the robots, and build new ones. And a few jobs will remain human only.

But we could easily get to 80% of the population being free to make art and dance

Because things are the way they are, things will not stay the way they are.
We didn't try communism as far as I know. We hunted it down and murdered it in its cradle if I'm reading the CIA declassified archives correctly.
Why is every HN thread glazing communism now?

Are people that broken nowadays?

boo hoo I dont have the new iphone the moment it release.

Bish I was on PS1 until 2004.

Ask East Germans, Poland, Lithuania, Lativa, Estonia etc if communism or capitalism is better. I'll wait. :)

Communists having killed of 100 to 140 million people is sufficient reason to hunt them down.

But unfortunately there are still plenty of useful idiots, the same kind that propped up Mao, Pol Pot and Stalin.

The Russian empire tried communism. It was better than what they had before or since.

The Chinese tried communism. It worked far better for them than what they had before.

The Iron Curtain was a real thing, as was the Berlin Wall. Successful social and economic systems do not need to execute their own citizens for attempting to escape.
In the opinion of the champaign socialists in the West. In the opinion of people who lived under that regime... Not so much.
> The Russian empire tried communism. It was better than what they had before or since.

No, it was not better. Quite objectively.

Stanford had shares in Google because they had the rights to the PageRank algorithm.

They sold their shares in 2005

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-dec-02-fi-calbr...

Superhans: "The secret ingredient is crime."
See also Airbnb and Uber.
To be fair, i think you needed a cutthroat businessman leading the company. Which i guess is more or less the same today
This too but early MS to their employs was closer to a hipster SV vibe coding in a coffee shop a decade ago.
> a cutthroat businessman leading the company

I'm sure his family connections aided him significantly.

And for such simple processors and systems no less! No descriptor tables to deal with, no memory management to configure. These days it takes a little processor inside the main processor, just to get things started. Those were golden times.
Replace Assembly with TypeScript/Rust/Go/whatever and as long as the idea is good and useful, same thing applies today.
Except the competition was essentially non existent and no one would copy your product with llm in a day
What makes you think there was no competition?
The "competition" never been just a different codebase, that's one of the smallest pieces you'd have to actually build if you want to build a product people actually want to buy and use. The magic is basically all around it, multiplied by the code, but you really must have every else down pretty tight before the codebase even start mattering. But once it does matter, it matters a lot, hence the difficult balancing.
No, it wasn't the case then, it's not the case now :

"Beyond the Seattle area, Gates [Bill's mother] was appointed to the board of directors of the national United Way in 1980, becoming the first woman to lead it in 1983. Her tenure on the national board's executive committee is believed to have helped Microsoft, based in Seattle, at a crucial time. In 1980, she discussed her son's company with John Opel, a fellow committee member, and the chairman of International Business Machines Corporation (IBM). Opel, by some accounts, mentioned Mrs. Gates to other IBM executives. A few weeks later, IBM took a chance by hiring Microsoft, then a small software firm, to develop an operating system for its first personal computer." from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Maxwell_Gates

It's as if your mother now was at the board of NVIDIA (because IBM then was quite the powerhouse). Sure, you still need to write "a few thousands lines of assembly" or equivalent... or find someone else who would, but you still need the connection to sell "it".

So... is your mom at such a famous board? Actually ANY board? If not you might have to write a LOT more and still a successful software company, sorry.

My take-away is kind of the opposite. You literally have to be the right person in the right place at the right time.
I find younger zoomers say this a lot and even to me in my 30s "oh you had it so easy!" because they think the knowledge today, we would have had back then. This is false.

Loser today, you would have been a loser back then too.

More than a few people would rather die in poverty than put in the effort today even if you offered to time-machine them back with their finished product.