[timr]

It’s a shame that I had to scroll past pages of invective and name-calling to get to your comment, which is the first one to substantively deal with the policy change.

Like you, I tend to think this is a ham-handed move, but like one of the sibling comments, I also have to acknowledge that it’s common for other nations to require change-of-status applications happen outside the country. For example, Japan requires this for some (but not all!) visa modifications.

Also, I’ve seen otherwise reliable sources making unsupported claims about this (e.g. “Existing applicants will lose their ability to apply again if they leave the country”) that aren’t clear from the minuscule amount of information that has been released so far.

As usual with these debates, the content is far more heat than light.

[cyberrock]

Japan only requires leaving for converting a tourist/digital nomad visa and some Working Holiday Visas to a normal working/spouse visa. And WHV to normal status is really dependent on the partner country. For example Australians don't need to leave, but Canadians and Brits do, and I've heard that immigration will sometimes just grant the change of status anyways. So that seems to indicate that Japan doesn't really care.

Needing to leave to convert a normal working/spouse status to PR is not the norm anywhere.

[adev_]

> . So that seems to indicate that Japan doesn't really care.

Additionally, Japan has a very clear and straightforward process to convert HSP Visa (Highly skilled visa) to a permanent residency.

It can be done in 3years for most and to 1year for the high level candidatures (PhD profiles).

This is very far from the current H1B shitshow.

[timr]

> Additionally, Japan has a very clear and straightforward process to convert HSP Visa (Highly skilled visa) to a permanent residency.

I mean, that's true as far as it goes, but HSP is one special visa amongst many, and they're not all so easy. Also, Japan is currently in the middle of its own dramatic restructuring of the immigration system related to HSP, including a number of new requirements that would drive critics of the US system to apoplexy (i.e. language fluency requirements).

Overall, the Japanese system looks a lot more conservative than the US one, though the sanity and consistency level is far higher.

[adev_]

> HSP is one special visa amongst many, and they're not all so easy.

Japan has a selective immigration system where the profiles JP gov considers as "necessary" are made easy to immigrate, and the others not so much.

One can disagree with the method, but at least it is consistent.

Near that, half of the American tech (and associated GDP) is constructed highly qualified immigrated engineers on H1B visas, and still the US gov openly shit on them.

> US system to apoplexy (i.e. language fluency requirements)

JP mainly just put some Japanese language level requirement on the HSP visas related to roles with communication. That honestly does not shock me.

[timr]

We agree that the Japanese system is far more consistent. I think it's better!

But let's not kid ourselves: if the US instituted a CEFR B2 language requirement [1] for anyone on an H1B visa to gain residency, it would be an absolute shitshow.

[1] This is the new Japanese language requirement.

[handle584]

Assuming English is the language, CEFR B2 is roughly 75 in TOEFL, such a low standard that community colleges would think twice before admitting such internationals students. In reality H1B tech workers easily blows 100+.

[airstrike]

No, it would not be a shitshow. That's just your assumption.

Do you think I could not pass that test?

[saalweachter]

For the US to institute a language standard, we'd first have to agree on an official language at the federal level.

[declan_roberts]

I think one of the primary divergences of thought happening here is whether H1B is indeed a temporary visa or whether it was meant to be a stepping stone to a green card.

H1B is only 36 years old. The Immigration Act of 1990 always meant it to be a temporary status, which is why it is so easily imperiled.

[timr]

Yes, it's temporary, but the 1990 act explicitly established dual-intent, which clearly made the visa eligible for adjustment of status under INA 245. Nobody is really debating that fact, but the announcement memo is also not clear about what they're going to try to do in terms of actual administrative process.

Part of the noise around this topic is that the administration just announced something vague with no detailed guidance, which leaves the door open for bad-faith interpretations by everyone.

[trimethylpurine]

It's also necessary for media to exist as an industry. The objective of nearly all news articles is clicks, comments, and sharing. Bad-faith interpretation is by far the best way to increase the count of all of those things regardless of how detailed the guidance might be.

[airstrike]

It's a shame you scrolled past pages of comments and missed the point entirely.

The fact that it's "common in other countries" is entirely irrelevant to what the United States does.

It's not even clear it's common in other countries. Japan is notorious for being insular.

This is a garbage move by this administration that flies in the face of decades of precedents _in the United States_.