[dnnddidiej]

But then they gave up a tax paying job and thus the net effect is zero.

Looking holistically the person leaving the US (or lets say 100 people to make it easier to see the point) means 1 to 30 less startups and so maybe an entire company or more not being started. That is less revenue for US.

What most people from the "they steal our jobs" mentality (not saying that is you, but this a seperate point) don't get is productive people create jobs by being a customer of many businesses.

[ipaddr]

Then someone lower got a better job and someone out of work ends up in a job.

[konschubert]

This is called the "lump of labour" fallacy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy

[Saline9515]

So the job market doesn't exist? Interesting!

[dnnddidiej]

These one dimensional brush offs of a complex system are a bit tiring. Doesn't sound like genuine curiousity. It is almost like political rhetoric.

Yes the job market exists.

[itsmek]

To be clear, their point is:

>The facts show that just like the amount of labor is not fixed, neither is the size of the economy (fixed pie fallacy) and as more work is done, the economy grows

Your reply is a glib thought-terminating cliche strawman that doesn't address their point at all. Interesting!

[Saline9515]

Those theories are based mainly on the effect of Cuban immigration in Miami, however they lack a control so you can't really conclude anything.

Besides, yeah, if you hire people who will work for any salary, the amount of jobs will increase, but salaries will decrease, for locals as well. After some time, locals will flee sectors where the migrant workers are brought in, creating further self-inflicted "labor shortages"...requiring more migrants!

The main winners are capital owners, who, thanks to the migrant workers, can now acquire a larger part of the added value generated by workers.

[dnnddidiej]

But a jobs worth of GDP was lost due to the lost consumption. Harder to measure for 1 person but imagine 100k people suddenly left a city. That would be felt somewhere. Dry cleaners, cafe, supermarkets etc.

This might be less true if there is resource starvation but we have transport and imports and exports. You can accomodate more people and feed them.

[bonsai_spool]

There are not enough qualified people in any particular country for all the possible new technologies that could be deployed. You're not likely to hire your plumber to program a webapp.

That doesn't mean your plumber isn't qualified—just that people looking for webapps want to hire workers who know how to make them.

[ipaddr]

So many computer science grads can't find work many have left the field. I don't think we will run out of workers.

There is the other side plenty of workers successful at programming language could be trained to fill any gap. That's what happened in the 50s and 60s..

[rtgfhyuj]

lol cs grads can’t do this work

[dnnddidiej]

Companies also struggle to hire. It is a skills matching issue.

[hunterpayne]

Companies struggle to hire at a rate they want to pay. They don't struggle to hire at a market rate pay or more. Funny how that works.

PS The number of roles that there aren't qualified Americans for could be counted on one hand. This has always been about reducing salaries, not shortages.

[mlnj]

I highly doubt a company can find 20k senior Photolithography experts in rural Nebraska if a company wanted. No matter what money they are paying. They'll have to bring them in.

Of course I am exaggerating, but this is not a 1 dimensional problem.

[kasabali]

it's a companies not wanting to spend any amount of time and money training an employee and wanting 100% utilization the second the employment starts issue.

[throwaway85825]

Writing web apps is not the most skilled of jobs. Despite what some egos would have tou believe.

[Ntrails]

Those seem like bold assumptions about % of startups created by green card holders?

I feel like the better argument is that the greencard holder was the best candidate and thus will be more productive in the role. It is just efficient resource allocation. That, even without new companies, will drive profit/expansion/more jobs