[ianm218]

This simplification is very small. #2 is almost literally self evidently true.

Most of the disagreement is where a given country should be on the spectrum of zero immigration and fully open immigration.

You can know we have the right to set strict regulations, and also object to driving smart hardworking people away from your country for no reason.

[elil17]

I would say that #1 is almost self evidently true (I mean, obviously it's not because so many people disagree).

It seems obvious to me that there is no moral reason that some people should only be allowed to live in certain places.

[halflife]

It’s not about morality. It’s about human nature and economy. It’s like saying everybody should have the same amount of money. The result of such thinking would destroy the coin, and alternate forms of money would be created by the people.

Having all countries open the borders to anyone (ignoring security risks for the sake of the argument) would mean all poor people would emigrate to rich countries and strain the economy, while their home country would collapse from lack of workforce.

[toilet]

[flagged]

[halflife]

I’ve never said blacks. That’s your own bias creeping into my explanation.

And it really doesn’t matter why some countries got poorer, this is the fact right now so my point still stands.

[ianm218]

Regardless if you find all bad luck immoral it just isn’t practical for every country to support every person. It’s immoral to have borders in the same way it’s immoral everyone doesn’t have a private driver, a personal chef, and a mansion.

[Longlius]

>You can know we have the right to set strict regulations, and also object to driving smart hardworking people away from your country for no reason.

But the crux of the problem is this - many of the immigrants we've been sold on as being "smart hardworking people" have not been that and often been the opposite. Your side seems incapable of grappling with the fact that it has fundamentally lost the trust of the electorate on this issue and seems entirely uninterested in doing anything to regain this trust by overhauling the way we filter prospective immigrants.