[SpicyLemonZest]

I’m just not sure what a convincing argument could look like anymore. We’re past the point where there’s any concrete intellectual capability that AIs can’t demonstrate, and it’s rare these days for anyone to even try to present me with one. I would not say “insecure”, but it’s clear to me that the remaining holdouts have religious objections at this point: you can’t call any LLM intelligent, no matter what it’s capable of outputting, since it doesn’t have a soul like me. Nothing I can really say to argue with that.

[amake]

> We’re past the point where there’s any concrete intellectual capability that AIs can’t demonstrate

How about "will" and "desire"? These seem like things an actual intelligence would have.

> it’s clear to me that the remaining holdouts have religious objections at this point

From where I sit, it sure seems like claims of having achieved AGI are religious in nature.

- The very definition of AGI is not agreed upon, much less definitions of god

- Despite the burden of proof being on those claiming AGI, every request for proof is spurned with a "no u"

[SpicyLemonZest]

It's pretty straightforward to give a modern agentic system will and desire. I routinely set up AI instances that want to resolve a bug or open a PR, and they continue to take autonomous action towards that goal as long as is necessary to achieve it. Perhaps you mean something else? If so what would be an example?

> Despite the burden of proof being on those claiming AGI, every request for proof is spurned with a "no u"

I think you're misunderstanding the dynamics here. I genuinely don't understand what people mean when they say cutting-edge AI is not generally intelligent. To my ears it's like saying that an electric car isn't really capable of driving. In order to even begin to engage in that discussion, I'd have to understand where the person saying it is coming from and why they don't consider every EV on the road to be a counterexample.

[amake]

> It's pretty straightforward to give a modern agentic system will and desire

That is your will and desire. They are following your instructions. There is no "intelligence" there.

> I genuinely don't understand what people mean when they say cutting-edge AI is not generally intelligent

I don't really know where to go either. From my perspective you are too far down the rabbit hole and I don't think we can come to a meaningful shared understanding.

Good luck with that.