[MetaWhirledPeas]

> the J-firm, run by its employees and largely indifferent to the interests of shareholders, exists simply to continue existing

I don't know if all companies should be run like Japanese companies, but there's something very heartwarming about this. Some companies exist for the purpose of employment, and that's okay. In fact it's admirable and makes me want to cheer.

[cm2012]

I do also think there's a charm to this model but there's a real cost also with Japan's economy stagnating compared to the United States in the last 30 years.

[roxolotl]

There’s also a real cost to the system in the United States as well. As companies pivot people get left behind. And we’re potentially going to see with LLMs a large collapse in employment that corporations don’t even being to consider their responsibility. I’m not suggesting one is superior but they do both have their downsides.

[monkaiju]

Perhaps, but in terms of the average Japanese persons day to day experience it doesn't seem so bad. They outrank us in almost all QoL measures

[missedthecue]

Japan is getting poorer. People online love to talk about American stagnant wages, but Americans are considerably richer than they were 20 years ago. The median American earns 20% more in real terms, and even the bottom quintile of earners in America has increased their inflation adjusted earnings by 15%. In the same time period, the median Japanese inflation adjusted earnings is down 2.8%.

Compared to 20 years ago, Japanese people travel much less (millions fewer can afford to go overseas). Residential energy is 35% more expensive per kwh, compared to only 5% in the US. Food as a portion of monthly Japanese spend is 48% more expensive than it was 20 years ago. Despite millions of vacant dwellings, the home ownership rate is slipping. They earn less and they spend less.

Tokyo may seem quaint to American visitors clanking down their metal Chase travel credit card for more sushi, but for the typical Japanese, although they take it with grace and in stride, they have mired in stagnation and degrowth for a generation.

[munificent]

* Japan is ranked 61st on the World Happiness Index. The US is 23rd.

* Japan is ranked 23rd on the Human Development Index. The US is 17th.

* However, Japan is ranked 8th on the US News Quality of Life Index. The US is 30th.

Grass is greener on the other side.

https://data.worldhappiness.report/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Dev...

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-countries-fo...

[petra]

And Israel is ranked #8 in the world happiness index, but if you look at the rates of depression and anxiety, you'll see a different story.

[i_am_a_peasant]

#8 if you’re born in the right religion and socio economical background anyway…

[sashank_1509]

Frankly I think any QoL measure between a western and a Japanese life are meaningless.

If you’ve ever worked for a Japanese corp under a Japanese boss, you would basically experience that your life is hell. As a westerner we are even subjected to far lesser rules and customs than a Japanese, and yet to me it still felt far more stifling and unbearable than any western company I worked for. Western companies have different failure modes, but intense unspoken micromanagement and stupid expectations was never one of them.

And I was a supposed “subject matter expert”, to be treated better than rank and file. That said, this clearly works for Japanese people, many of them are happy, I think they would be miserable under a western firms “do whatever the f you want as long as you get results” culture. To each their own.

Japan in some sense is stagnating if you compare it to a GOAT like US, but Japan of 1910s was also probably stagnating compared to US, in its own terms Japan is doing fine and their political situation is much more civil. So GG to them

[ahartmetz]

They work crazy long hours (the last of which every day don't do much at all for productivity), which is really bad for QoL. Though I hear that the situation is improving.

[elzbardico]

Most of Japan stagnation was the result of brutal pressure from the US in the 1980s that led to a series of fiscal and monetary choices that removed a lot of Japan's competitivity.

[missedthecue]

The median age of Japan went from 37 in 1990 to 50 in 2026. That's an insurmountable headwind. Soon, half the country will be elderly. That's no way to run a vibrant dynamic economy.

[skippyboxedhero]

That is because of population aging. Despite the US importing effectively endless amounts of young people, per capita income growth for working age population since the 1990s has been identical between US and Japan. I am unable to say why exactly but it should be obvious.

It is important to note, however, that the starting point is very different. The idea of employees robbing those evil shareholders sounds good but has resulted in capital markets that effectively do not function. Tidying up that mess will not be simple and improving equity markets will go a long way.

Also, the structure of Japan is a function of US policy after WW2 to dismantle the zaibatsu. In every single other historical case that I am aware of the result of "employee-friendly" policies has resulted in the kind of permanent underclass that people fear, incorrectly, that AI will lead to (i.e. Germany). It is a known bad idea. Japan avoided this because all the wealthy people's assets were taken, this didn't happen in other countries (i.e. Germany) which led to significant financial instability/risk/inequality (Germany also has inequality within a completely stagnant economic system, which is different from inequality in a system where the composition of wealthy people is continually changing...Germany's billionaires are a combination of people who mysteriously got rich in the 1930s very quickly and people who have been rich since the 10th century).

Japan is interesting but it is a complete outlier. Even with their relatively good relative economic performance, they could be producing absolute-terms growth that is double or even quadruple where it is now. Comparing middling economies like Japan or Western Europe with countries growing the same rate and per-capita incomes that are double is a misunderstanding of potential. Average economic performance should be double the US consistently for multiple decades.

[ymolodtsov]

Apple is basically this already.