[dspillett]

To be frank I'm having a hard time already. I was already wanting to be out of tech as a job because after years of mental issues since 2020ish I've come to realise that remote working is a significant factor in that. Being in a company where all I hear day-in day-out when I do talk to people is “AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, AI, …” really isn't helping.

If GenAI continues unabated with current growth patterns, many of our (dev, writers, certain researchers, etc.) jobs will be gone, and we'll be fighting for table waiting and shelf stacking tasks before they are taken over by physically capable AI too. Maybe those of us avoiding the train and hoping to be made redundant before we leave [insert-industry-here] voluntarily because we can't stand being surrounded by it any more, will be ahead of the rest of you in already having one of those minimum wage jobs when you are desperately looking for one rather than having nothing :)

Or maybe there will be some room for some of us who want to do a job ourselves, rather than manage others (people or machines) that are doing the job. Unlikely, but you never know…

[mancerayder]

Remote working is an incredible privilege I'd today take a big big salary cut for. Instead I'm in an expensive city paying 8 dollars for coffee, whatever in rent, and dealing with congestion of people everywhere. Congestion of people everywhere is way more of a mental health hazard for me than being alone.

Point is, you lost me after complaining about remote work. It reminded me of what I lost forever. I could have been working from a rainforest or the beach, in a low cost of living area, instead of this nightmare.

[dspillett]

> Point is, you lost me after complaining about remote work.

The/A point is, not everything works the same way for everyone.

> working from a rainforest or the beach

Would you really want to turn somewhere you enjoy into where you work. I at least go into the office so I have some work/home separation (though I'm effectively remote as the rest of the team I work with is usually elsewhere).

> Remote working is an incredible privilege I'd today take a big big salary cut for.

Actually working with people, not just occasionally seeing names and faces on a screen or in future largely interacting with mostly just this one odd individual called Claude, is something I'm seriously considering taking a massive pay cut⁰ for. AI isn't the reason, but it is the extra bale of hay that might finish me off in this respect.

I'm not even really a massive “people person”, I avoid town at busy times, avoid big cities aside from the occasional tourist trip, I'm not even happy in a pub if it gets too crowded, and really fear being centre of attention in more than a tiny group, etc. But connecting with remote people feels so fake sometimes, and I have to concentrate to care about them or even keep them in my head at all¹ once the mail is sent or the call is ended, that they might as well be LLMs.

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[0] at very least 50%, even allowing for differing tax allowances meaning I'd keep more of the gross pay

[1] which takes a draining amount of mental effort over time

[mancerayder]

I understand - and I think our respective feelings on the matter are deeply tied to where we are geographically. High-cost of living vs low-cost? Jobs nearby versus not so much?

For me - remote jobs seem few and far between, and highly competitive. Stuck locally, I suffer from being forced into commutes, forced into high cost of living situations, and being that I despise high density living/noise and I'm sensitive to crowds, for me remote work is a paradise-like fantasy. I can picture myself working throughout the world exploring new lives rather than being stuck in dystopian city life.

Most of us where I live are "four days a week in the office." No choice. I think what's missing here is the dimension of choice. Some people thrive in noise, others not so much. Sometimes 2 days a week is good, for others 0, for others 5. For some, it might be that they love coming into the office, but want to spend a month in the rainforest. Etc.

Remote versus office requirements are 100% about control.

[orangecoffee]

One idea we have discussed in my network is if as an industry reset we all said CS should become a 2X to 6X minimum wage career. So say 30k beginner to 100K senior/lead. This would keep many more jobs available and open. But I guess it would not be acceptable to many?