[defrost]

> it would be weird to have a non macho dude play Achilles.

Odd. Remind me, wasn't it Achilles who spent a couple of years cross dressing as a girl while hiding out to avoid a fight?

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achilles_on_Skyros

  Buenos noches Senores y Senoras Bienvenidos

  La primera pregunta es: Que es mas macho, pineapple o knife?

  Well, let's see
  My guess is that a pineapple is more macho than a knife

  Si! Correcto! Pineapple es mas macho que knife
  La segunda pregunta es: Que es mas macho, lightbulb o schoolbus?

  Uh, lightbulb?
  No! Lo siento, Schoolbus es mas macho que lightbulb

  Gracias. And we'll be back in un momento

~ https://youtu.be/AY3OgLo8DUc?t=14

[dyauspitr]

I hate these gotchas but I can’t resist and it’s on a flagged comment so no one is really going to see this. Are you saying trans people are just cross-dressers?

[tsimionescu]

No, it just suggests that to call Achilles "macho" is extremely weird. And the GP didn't even mention his extreme emotionality at the death of his lover, Patrocles, which is like half his plot in the Illiad.

[MaxHoppersGhost]

They were not lovers, that is modern BS painted over myth.

[defrost]

Modern BS based on Classical era BS ?

It's not some new DEI post-WWII crazy.

  ... frequently interpreted and depicted as lovers in the classical period of Greek literature, particularly in the works of Aeschylus, Aeschines and Plato.
  Other writers at the time, such as Xenophon in his Symposium, say that their relationship was not sexual, but instead an intense friendship.

  Ancient writers referenced both sides, and additionally debated whether and how the relationship fit into the scheme of pederasty in ancient Greece.

~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achilles_and_Patroclus

I'm pushing 70, don't much care one way or the other, but can state it's been cast as a very probably just another example of Greek lovers since I was in school .. and, as linked above, thought to be as such since the Classic Era writers.

You're certainly entitled to the opinion that pederasty wasn't a thing in ancient Greece, multitudes of texts and vases from the period wear that down somewhat.

[defrost]

No, just observing that some 2,000+ years of story telling portray Achilles as a short (by modern standards - average by ancient Greek standards) cross dressing bisexual.

That's not really a gotcha.

Given that I'd say there's a lot of latitude for directors to portray the character .. as has been done in a few opera's over the past century or so.