[extr]

This is like reading an article "I Don't Drive Cars" that goes on like

- They're too expensive

- My buddy's 1995 Accord breaks down a lot

- Walking is healthier, plus you can stop and smell the roses

- I enjoy caring for my horse

- Sometimes you can get stuck in traffic

Fine if that's the way you want and can afford to live your life. But it is an exotic luxury belief. For those of us who are participating in the economy for real, the preference to not drive cars is not realistic.

[Aurornis]

You're going to get picked apart by people who live within walking distance or public transport distance of their office and don't understand why everyone else uses cars.

If you can walk to your office and the temperature is always between 50 and 70 degrees F you would probably think cars are crazy, too.

Which, funnily enough, proves the point even further. Some people get so comfortable in their bubble that they become unable to even comprehend why other people make other choices in other situations.

[seba_dos1]

> by people who live within walking distance or public transport distance of their office

So, the vast majority of people living in cities?

> the temperature is always between 50 and 70 degrees F

More like between -15°C and 35°C (though the upper range does depend on humidity).

[tasuki]

What a weird analogy.

I almost always walk to the office. The temperature range is a lot bigger (freezing in winter to uncomfortably hot in summer), and it's like 3 km, which many people wouldn't dream of walking. When my work was farther I used to cycle.

Most people can easily get to work without a car. Just depends on goals and motivations. Car is definitely the laziest way.

[Aurornis]

> Most people can easily get to work without a car.

This is statistically very false.

It does a good job of proving my point that people within this bubble have a hard time understanding what the rest of the world is like.

[tasuki]

You're the one in a bubble.

[Edit:] That wasn't very helpful of me, let me expand: I live in a city of 400,000 people. It can be crossed on foot in an hour, faster by bicycle. For people who can't or don't want to, the public transport is good. And yet there are traffic jams everywhere.

I used to live in Amsterdam, which is a bigger place. I cycled around 13 km each way, which isn't entirely unusual.

I stand by my point that most people can easily get to work without a car. Most are just too lazy to walk/cycle/use public transport. If you have any data showing otherwise, I'd be delighted to see!

[Aurornis]

> You're the one in a bubble.

The average one-way commute in the United States is 27 minutes. Source https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2021/one-way-...

Unless you were making a statement about your city, it's not true that most people could easily get to work without a car.

> I stand by my point that most people can easily get to work without a car.

This probably feels true if you're in a bubble where everyone is like you: Presumably healthy, younger, not having to drop kids off at school(s) and then pick them up with your work day in between, and the weather is walkable.

It's cool that you could bike 13km each way to work. I bike a lot and could do that in my sleep. However I'm not going to start throwing out accusations that everyone is lazy and unmotivated, because I know everyone has different circumstances.

I had a 35 minute commute at 65mph for a while and there was not much traffic. I had no choice. The office was relocated and I had to make the drive until I found another job. Not possible to walk that distance. If I biked it I would have been biking for hours every day with no chance to see the kids before school or pick them up.

Your generalizations are why I said people who make these claims live in a bubble: If you think most people could easily ditch their car for work, you don't understand the diversity of how people live.

[tasuki]

> The average one-way commute in the United States is 27 minutes

A bubble right there.

> Unless you were making a statement about your city, it's not true that most people could easily get to work without a car.

It appears you're making a claim about the US, while I was making a general claim, not necessarily specific to the US.

And I'm not claiming everyone can get by without a car, I'm claiming most of the world population could easily commute without a car, if they wanted to.

Many people just don't want to.

> you don't understand the diversity of how people live.

Respectfully, if you think most people can't but drive a car to work, you're the one who doesn't understand diversity. This is further supported by your US-centric worldview.

[fito]

Usonians...

[extr]

You are picking at the analogy rather than engaging with the point. In the US, excluding areas with substantial public transportation infrastructure (realistically just a few major cities), car ownership is nearly universal. You can choose to not own a car as a lifestyle choice but you will be making concessions in other areas (the types of jobs and homes you have access to), similar to how refusal to use AI in software engineering at this point will substantially limit your options and ability to participate in the sector.

[footy]

I live in Southwestern Ontario and I think cars are crazy.

[fffrantz]

Life without a car is not an exotic luxury at all, far from it, and all your points are just proving the point. Cars are a luxury, from the amount of taxes paid towards car infrastructure to the social costs associated with “the car culture” (insurance, public health, climate change, etc.). There are countless examples of urban and rural areas where alternative modes of transportation (LRT, bus, bicycle, ferries) are the norm and where cars are barely necessary/used. Not every place in the world is Anywhere, USA…

[somewhereoutth]

But it is not a real economy is it? Vast sums of money are being spent subsidizing token processing with little to no tangible business benefit for the end user.

For those of us lucky enough to have the choice, the best bet is to sit it out for a year or so until it all comes crashing down, then re-engage with what's left of the software industry.

[rzmmm]

Checked all five except "caring for my horse" is "tinkering with my bicycle".

[threetonesun]

Yes everyone that lives in a major city that doesn't use a car is... not participating in the real economy.

[extr]

If you do not live in one of the handful of areas in the US with public transportation infrastructure and also do not own a car you are an extreme outlier. Likewise, if you do not use AI tools to code, outside of some highly niche and specialized areas where perhaps they are still not effective, you are also an extreme outlier and are going to making significant tradeoffs to continue that practice.

[nix0n]

There are many trainfuls of people who still write code using traditional syntax-based IDE completion.

[extr]

If they want to continue that practice that's fine but they will quickly find that it severely limits their options for participating in the software industry.

[stephenr]

If you've all been reduced to vibe coding and hoping for the best I'd suggest that you aren't really participating in the software industry either mate.

[Gud]

Why not?

Making code is not synonymous with making software.

[stephenr]

I'm pretty sure it is actually.

[andrekandre]

agree, it really is, saying otherwise is like someone who indirectly edited an xml layout with a visual tool thinks they are writing software...

[runarberg]

Tbh. Those are all good reasons not to drive. I my self would add:

- They dangerous both to me as a driver, my passengers, and other road users, including pedestrians and bicyclists.

- They ruin cities which constantly have to accommodate ever increasing number of cars by destroying previously walkable neighborhoods to make room for roads and parking.

- They destroy our climate

- They are loud.

- Busses are nicer and I can read a book while riding the bus.

[extr]

You're welcome to feel that way but it's a luxury belief. In reality, outside of a few (one?) major city in the US with public transportation infrastructure, you need a car. 92% of people own a car, higher if you exclude the dense urban areas I'm talking about.

[runarberg]

Car ownership is lowest in the lowest income brackets, and public transit ridership is highest among the lower income brackets. I really don‘t understand how you can reach your conclusion that not driving is a luxury. Data would suggest the exact opposite.

EDIT: To clarify on the public transit usage. The data is by-modal. Lower income levels are by far more likely to use road based public transit (such as busses), but high earners are more likely to live near a rail station and use rail based transit: https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/public-transit-access-and-inc...

[dpatterbee]

People only need cars because people have cars and cars make cities worse for everyone outside of one. If nobody owned cars everyone would get by just fine. It's a race to the bottom.

[satvikpendem]

Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that today people need cars. In an ideal world I'd also love a European or Asian city model but American cities are not like that.

[runarberg]

Most American cities have decent enough public transit where it is viable (or even a preferable) alternative to driving. I can think of Seattle, New York, Chicago, San Francisco, etc. Not every city in America is like El Paso or Phoenix. But even in cities like El Paso or Phoenix, the hostility towards public transit is a political choice and an alternative policy is available if politicians want it.

I my self live close to the good American cities and even though my community is rather rural (I literally live across the street from a dairy farm) I still prefer biking to town. And when I go to the city, I rarely bring my car with me, as I prefer the bus over waiting in the ferry line and dealing with parking in the city.

[hootz]

Is this bait? What are you talking about? I just use public transport to go to work. Basically, all of those points about cars are correct, except for the last one because here you almost always get stuck in traffic during rush hours. Often buses get to a destination faster than cars because of Bus Rapid Transit.

EDIT: Oh, you are talking just about the US. Then your comparison doesn't make any sense because LLMs are available worldwide.

[gverrilla]

'For those of us americans who are participating in the economy for real, the preference to not drive cars is not realistic.'

Fixed that for you.

[nh23423fefe]

People write "i dont" when they mean "i cant"