[hobbe80]

London, July 7 2005. Now, I don't agree with any security checks on train stations (and think the security checks on airports are ridiculous) but I'm afraid that those who want to implement such things can at least dig up some argument (not commenting on the validity of those arguments)...

[snogglethorpe]

> London, July 7 2005

What's that supposed to illustrate? That a bomb in a crowded place can be harmful? Hmm, ok, better get the TSA to cordon off all malls, clubs, popular restaurants...

The thing about air travel is that there is a better argument for (some) security to prevent hijackings and bombs, both because planes are very fragile (there's a decent chance for a smallish bomb to result in the entire plane being lost and all passengers killed), and because they're usable as missiles against much larger targets (as illustrated by 9.11). Planes, in other words, have a somewhat unique ability to magnify the effect of a given terrorist attack.

None of that is the case for rail transport. For the most part, a train is simply a very crowded place, in a society that's absolutely chock-full of very crowded places. Indeed, the long-distance/regional trains most likely to receive TSA "attention" are much less crowded than local trains and subways which will almost certainly never be allowed to fall under TSA control for practical reasons.

[Ntrails]

The security checks at airports serve very little use in preventing the destruction (through a small explosion) of an aeroplane, given that after going through the security checks it is perfectly trivial to buy large quantities of pressurised containers and accelerants.

On the other hand making sure no one has guns on a plane seems worth queueing at the metal detectors for. Maybe that is just me being anti-gun though...

[danenania]

You're assuming that protecting people from terrorism is actually a primary motivation of these measures, and that powerful police institutions might might give up a chance at increased control of the population, which makes their jobs easier, for the sake of efficiency.

If you give the police free reign, you'll end up with a society that's only efficient for the police.

[arrrg]

Are there airport-style security checks in train stations London? I don’t know, but I guess not.

At any rate, there aren’t any in Germany, even though two islamic terrorists actually targeted two German regional trains in 2006. They left suitcases with – luckily – non-functional bombs in both (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_German_train_bombing_plot). That’s pretty much the only (attempted) islamic terror attack that ever happened in Germany†.

Bigger train stations usually have quite some police presence and there are (horribly racist) spot checks, but that’s all. (Usually the police want to check your ID card and then radio in the name to see whether there’s anything on your name. I’m guessing they are also trying to look for suspicious activity, but the most permanent reminder of the possibility of terrorist attacks are regular announcements to not leave your baggage unattended.)

Even when there was a lot of fear of terror attacks on trains or train stations being imminent a few years back, police presence (in bigger train stations) was merely bumped and you got to see some policewomen and men with submachine guns.

Everything would probably collapse in Germany if airport style checks were introduced in train stations. It’s just not realistic. The way trains are used doesn’t play nice with security checks. I mean, tons of people use trains in Germany to commute. Those trains are already plenty late in many major metropolitan areas, add security checks to that and you have a recipe for disaster. Plus: There are so many train stations, do you need checks in everyone of those? Even just including every high-speed train stop would probably result in many more train stations in Germany needing security equipment than there are airports in Germany.

But everyone can see that high-speed train stops are not enough. The terrorists in 2006 targeted regional trains! Those stop at train stations that are no more than a block of concrete next to the tracks. And those trains are plenty packed, often more so than high-speed trains.

Traveling by air has a different pace. It fits security checks better. There are few airports and airplanes don’t make dozens of stops god knows where.

The economic cost of bringing airport style security checks to trains easily outweighs any benefits even security fanatics might fantasize about. That’s why it doesn’t happen, at least not in countries with heavily used and dense train networks. (Now, countries with very sparse train networks that are not heavily used are a completely different story. Airport-style security checks do happens in those countries. Uzbekistan would be one example.)

—

† In 2011 an Islamist shot and killed two US soldiers (wounded two more) on the way to Afghanistan who were in a bus in front of Frankfurt Airport (about to be transported to Ramstein Air Base).

[SideburnsOfDoom]

> Are there airport-style security checks in train stations London?

No, of course not. It's just not realistic, for the same reasons that you gave.

There are spot checks. It has only happened to me once, since I don't fit the profile. That also has drawbacks that you mentioned - it's far too close to racial profiling, and though it's often under the banner of "anti-terrorism", it mostly confiscates knives.

Notwithstanding the 7 July 2005 bombings, Terrorism isn't a major threat. More people die from far more mundane, accidental things.

[lmm]

If you've ever caught a train in China there are airport-style security checks there - put your bag through the X-ray, walk through the arch, show your passport. In fact the whole experience is airport-style - you wait in a numbered lounge and only go onto the platform when your specific train is called.

Even taking the subway means passing through a quick bag check.

Airport-style security at train stations is a terrible idea for many reasons, but it's not as impractical as you make it sound.

[nickik]

I think people would just go nuts. In Germany you allready have a big movment for privacy (Piratparty for example).

[arrrg]

I guess it's possible, but status quo is very powerful.