[pavelludiq]

You think customization is a waste of time? Ok, you want to get stuff done, thats reasonable. How about those of us who think that its the killer feater? I've been disassembling and tinkering with things since i was 4 years old. List of things i've broken while messing with them as a child: a turntable, 3 tape players, most of my toys. My favorite toy was duck tape and wires, because at 6 i still haven't learned to solder and that was the way i connected batteries to motors, lights switches(all taken from broken toys).

This is the type of person i am, so are a lot of HN users. Computers are like crack for us. Here is a machine that can do everything i imagine, no force can get me away from my pc, it is my playground. I've broken my Linux install countless times(before i started using linux, i did the same with Windows) i mess with everything, hell, im addicted to this.

Why does apple think we are some sort of barbarians with no taste? I get the feeling that they feel that if they give people more control, they will somehow shit all over their egos or something.

I mean, i don't want to shit on anybodies ego, but i want to play with stuff. I'm sure the other Steve understands.

[jrockway]

Why does apple think we are some sort of barbarians with no taste?

To be fair, most people just want a computer that loads Google and writes Word documents. Apple serves that market fine, perhaps even better than Windows does.

But if you are a programmer, OS X and Windows are not good choices unless you are writing OS X or Windows apps (or you've watched too many Ruby on Rails screencasts).

[unalone]

Bullshit. Apple's got emacs and vim, if you're a hardcore coder. Better yet, Apple has some incredible development tools. I use Coda, because I work mostly with PHP, and let me tell you that if you haven't tried Coda before you're missing out. It is a sheer joy to use.

Every programmer is different. Stop making these arbitrary little boxes and assuming that how you work is the best and only way.

We Mac users GET this. We don't get anal and piss the rest of you off by assuming that our way is the only way. PLEASE return the favor, because I HATE that these fucking arguments happen every fucking day and that there's really no need, and that it's wasting all our time. I'm fed up. Hacker News is much better than this.

[jrockway]

> Every programmer is different.

Yes, some think that their blub is perfection. It makes me a little sad, actually.

> I HATE that these fucking arguments happen every fucking day and that there's really no need, and that it's wasting all our time.

You don't actually have to reply to every reply you get, you know. If you think you stated your views in the first thread, there is no need to rehash them. I ignore replies all the time, for this reason. (Or simply because I have something else to do. It's a social news site. Who cares?)

[unalone]

Look, I'm not in the best of moods and so I really don't want to get into an extended argument - use searchYC with my name + Apple if you really care about my arguments - so excuse me for being a little bit snappy in this response.

If you don't buy Apple's computers, they don't care about you. Apple has slowly been adding the features that they want in their computer, and they've assumed that lots of people want the same. That's the implicit agreement that you make when you buy a Mac: you're getting the computer Apple wants you to have. If you don't want that computer, don't buy Apple and stop arguing about whether or not Apple computers are good.

I get that you want to tinker. My cofounder uses Linux. I really, honestly do not have a problem with Linux. Seriously. I completely understand why you would want to use it. You have a completely different mindset than I have.

I'm a typical "Apple guy" so please listen to me when I say that this is my perspective, and that I say what I do to illustrate the other site. We're both right, I've said as much, and it's pissing me off that when I say "I think customization is a waste of time, I know you disagree, I'm not saying it's an argument," people come in and argue with me! Like, PLEASE excuse me for being irritated but Jesus CHRIST. We are different people! That's okay! We can still love each other and admire each other's works! I'm not assuming the two of us work the same way, and it pisses the FUCK out of me when you reply with the assumptions that:

A) I don't know what kinds of tinker-obsessed users Hacker News users are,

B) I haven't argued this once every five days because as MUCH as I like saying every time that "I understand your position, this isn't an argument," somebody comes in and feels the need to argue,

and C) I haven't been a Linux user myself for extended periods of time, and therefore understand perfectly where you're coming from.

I hold the belief that people who are really affected by aesthetic use Macs. Every last person who feels the drive that I do, the obsessive need to have every little anal detail right, uses a Mac. It's why it's so prevalent in Hollywood: designers love the Mac because it feels good. That's the right way to put it. Feels good. It's not the marketing, I assure you: there is something to how the Mac handles that delights me, that gives me joy. People who don't use Macs seem to think that when I say this I'm lying. I assure you that I'm not.