[lotsofpulp]

> It’s pretty wild to see just how far they’ve progressed while the west mostly does nothing.

The “west” came up with Tesla and Rivian, and their cars are on the road. And the US tariffed chinese EVs. What else can be done to combat China’s lower priced labor and possibly more lax environmental regulations?

[rubyn00bie]

The west needs to combat it by using subsidies and regulations to “spray and pray,” to a large degree. Just as China has… The problem with the occident, at the moment, is that corporations use the incentives to raise margins and not to innovate.

In the US at least we’re gearing up for massive failure in the automotive industry solely because we’re avoiding competition. Yes, there will be margin compression, but without it domestic businesses become inefficient. It’s going to be “80s/90s Detroit” all over again with bigger bailouts because at some point it’ll be too politically popular to reduce prices. When that happens the public will be the ones footing the bill.

And all that says nothing of the fact cheap labor alone doesn’t make a better car. But the fact China can both make a better car (EV) and with lower labor costs really shows how dependent US automakers are on market inefficiencies. The US, and Europe, were massively ahead in quality but that lead been destroyed.

I’m not a fan of capitalism, but if the US is going to sell it and preach it— we might as fucking well embrace it. Otherwise we’re just subsidizing the rich without rhyme or reason (other than blatant corruption and exploitation). The cost of those subsidies will be stagnation, and the outright capitulation of quality long term.

[lotsofpulp]

> And all that says nothing of the fact cheap labor alone doesn’t make a better car. But the fact China can both make a better car (EV) and with lower labor costs really shows how dependent US automakers are on market inefficiencies.

I don’t understand this. Why would COGS impact quality? Are Chinese people inherently inferior “Western” people?

The market inefficiency is partly the difference in price of labor, which is being made more efficient by Chinese manufacturers succeeding.

[awesome_dude]

I looked it up, and the key thing in favour of companies like BYD over the US companies - isn't (just) cheap labour - it's vertical integration.

BYD owns the mines, the batteries, the cars, the USA doesn't have that available, and are having to force other countries to provide their lithium/rare earth deposits to US companies in order to try and become competitive.

[awesome_dude]

> The west needs to combat it by using subsidies and regulations

> In the US at least we’re gearing up for massive failure in the automotive industry solely because we’re avoiding competition

Uhhh - you want to prevent competition by using subsidies and regulations, but then complain the US companies are not competitive because they avoid competition?

The US vehicle manufacturers have been here multiple times - VW, Japanese "compacts", and now Chinese EVs

The Germans were competing on quality and fuel consumption.

The Japanese were competing on quality and price, they started out naff, and became gold standard, whilst US manufacturers were stuck delivering low rate products.

The Koreans followed the same playbook.

And, now, the Chinese are doing it again, following the Japanese playbook - offering better and better quality at a lower price.