[np-]

Violence is an effective temporary behavior modification tool, people will in fact change their behavior in order to not get beaten by the stick. But the flip side is as soon as they get a bigger stick, the old behavior will be back with a vengeance. So the solution here is overwhelming violence. But then there’s clearly limits to that modifying behavior too (look at the Middle East for example).

Domestically, even with the threat of state violence (imprisonment), most offenders are repeat offenders, so how effective is violence really?

[nh23423fefe]

violence is a signal to offenders and non offenders. you cant only assess the effect on the direct targets of violence. if i spank my eldest, my youngest behaves better

[np-]

That’s still only temporary overwhelming violence, presumably over small children who are entirely subjugated by their parents and have no effective way to fight back. Would it still apply if your child was an 18 year old football player made of 200 pounds of solid muscle and could slap you back 10x harder? Would they still be following your violence instilled rules the second they get independence from you? The rebel child is quite a common trope. It still only holds when the violence is overwhelming, which is at best a temporary thing, until the tables turn and the one who was subjugated has power.

[DougN7]

I’m curious about your age. I don’t think I’ve ever met a person that was grateful to their parents for their beatings, and that was in any way close to them. I’m not claiming in any way that you beat your kids - but violence never creates virtue. Maybe public-facing good behavior at best, but below the surface is a lot of pain looking for a way out.

[TrnsltLife]

Maybe the author of Hebrews 12:11

"No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it."

It's a long-standing trait of adulthood to be able to reflect and integrate the sometimes painful training of childhood as being necessary for producing the mindsets and behaviors of to function in society.

[np-]

I am like 99% sure that quote is referring to self discipline and rigor in study and has absolutely nothing at all to do with your parents slapping you.

[DougN7]

Violence and discipline are not the same thing.

[nh23423fefe]

40s. my mom beat me a handful of times in my life. i think i deserved it. i dont have kids. "my eldest" is rhetorical.