[aleda145]

Oh so lobbying the EU comission to both slash CO2 targets and adding tolls to chinese EV cars did not actually make German auto manufacturers more competitive. Who would have thunk?

Yes I'm bitter how much influence the German car companies have over the union.

[Tade0]

You're not alone. Several times already I've gotten into internet arguments over this.

"But they provide jobs!" is the usual rebuttal.

Well, they ain't doin' that any more, are they?

[joe_mamba]

>"But they provide jobs!" is the usual rebuttal. Well, they ain't doin' that any more, are they?

People who support stuff like this, are unable to think 15 minutes past their own actions. They can't comprehend the negative externalities and second order effects of the policies they support. They easily get manipulated to just blindly support feel-good policies based on own-group tribalism, platitudes and vibes, especially the German voters.

Same like the crowd who thinks rent freeze is the solution to rising rents. They don't understand supply and demand, so they can't comprehend how this will lead to a massive housing disaster down the road, they just want frozen rents for themselves now, and 'after me, the flood'. Hell, people don't even understand how inflation works, they think prices increases just come from greed of business owners, they can't fathom how currency is being devalued by massive government money printing that inflates assets and devalues their labor. This is beyond their level of understanding.

When you work public facing service jobs, you realize just how stupid the average person is, so no wonder politicians and elites can rob us blind via laws and policies implemented with our own accord, while then having us blame each other and fight over sports-ball.

Sorry if I sound overly nihilistic, but this is my conclusion after so many years of human interactions on this planet. We get the leadership and outcome we deserve, nothing more, nothing less.

[citadel_melon]

Part of the problem is that there are fake “pragmatists” who claim that nothing ever comes from greed or market consolidation, making laymen who can’t mechanistically and empirically think through the markets skeptical of all “pragmatist” claims.

For example, you are right about rent freezes and protection of non-infant industry; however, there were studies showing that ~40% of inflation at the end of Biden’s term was due to “greedflation.” This should not be surprising to anyone who understands that massive consolidation in industry leads to less price competition. Moreover, there were CEOs on shareholder calls bragging how they could get away with price gouging, using inflation as an excuse to justify an order of magnitude more price hikes than inflation justified. We do not need to take their word though, as if inflation was the only cause of inflation, then firm profits should have stayed around the same book ratios, but during the time I discussed firm profits ratios increased dramatically.

So let me make a symmetry argument: why are you so angry at ignorant individuals who throw the baby out with the bath water and dismiss your valid “pragmatist” takes, when you yourself are ignorantly throwing the baby out with the bath water dismissing many valid “greed and consolidation” takes?

[joe_mamba]

> there were studies showing that ~40% of inflation at the end of Biden’s term was due to “greedflation.”

Studies approved by the government show the government is not to blame for the economic situation it created, but the "greedy corporations" are to blame. OK, sure.

>This should not be surprising to anyone who understands that massive consolidation in industry leads to less price competition.

Consolidation which was only possible due to ZIRP era excessive government money printing and lack of anti-monopoly law enforcement, therefore it's the same government being the core issue as I was talking before.

> Moreover, there were CEOs on shareholder calls bragging how they could get away with price gouging, using inflation as an excuse to justify an order of magnitude more price hikes than inflation justified.

So? Of course companies would raise prices if they could. Same how employees would raise their wages, if they could consolidate their bargaining power via unions. Everyone is greedy and self serving when they can get away with it.

The government is the one paid by us who controls and enforces anti monopoly laws. Why didn't they?

>when you yourself are ignorantly throwing the baby out with the bath water dismissing many valid “greed and consolidation” takes?

Because greed is a universal human trait that applies to everyone from employees, to landlords, small business owners, doctors, car dealers, handymen and builders, etc not just corporations. They all want more money than their peers, to get ahead and provide a better future for their offspring, regardless of societal consequences to those below the pecking order.

All the issues you mentioned above, are just secondary order effect from the government's red tape and monetary policies and lack of anti monopoly enforcement. Blaming only the "greedy comparisons" as the root of all evil, is just reductionist scapegoat propaganda that's easily digestible by the simpleton midwits, supported by the government to deflect the societal consequences they're responsible of creating.

No corporation is stronger than the governments. Corporations only operate within the framework of rules created and enforced by the government. Governments control the laws, courts, police, jails and military. They can have the CEOs of the F500 up against the wall and shot for treason or locked up in jail if they wanted to. If F500 rob you and get away with it, then blame your government for enabling them to do it, because ultimately corporations are doing it legally with the approval of your government you pay taxes to.

The reason simpleton midwits always default to blaming the "greedy corporations" for everything is simple: When the government prints zero interest money and devalues your wage and purchasing power, banks and corporations are the smartest and first in line to use that free money for consolidation and stock buybacks, immediately pushing the price of assets up. But ultimately it's the government's fiscal policies enabling this. Corporations are just smarter and faster to taking advantage of the fiscal environment the government cretes. Savvy average people also take advantage of this too, by using that cheap money to go in debt to buy stocks and property to increase their net worth and then have the inflation reduce the value of their debt.

It's the working class who has no assets that gets left behind, but again, that's caused by the government devaluing their labor via money printing, not the corporations. Corporations are better and navigating the environment the government creates because they hire smart savvy well educated specialists to exploit this environment legally, whereas average people are too stupid to know how the system works, they just blame corporations and the rich.

Don't believe me? Just Google it, ChatGPT it, Gemini it, Grok it etc, they'll tell you the same thing I did.

[citadel_melon]

“Pragmatists” (but really anti-pragmatist) like you always find creative ways to bring the blame back to government but then don’t take the next step of blaming the private interests that crafted those government policies.

Effectively, I could make a symmetrical argument and every time you blame the government, I can blame the private interests that primary influence government — especially since citizens united but even before then. Obviously this tactical trick you and other “pragmatists” rely on is therefore fallacious as it leads to a contradiction when you apply it evenhandedly.

I have respect for many libertarians but you are not one of them.

[joe_mamba]

> I can blame the private interests that primary influence government

You always manage to say nothing of value, just accusations.

>I have respect for many libertarians but you are not one of them.

I'm not looking for your respect since you never once argued in good faith in this thread, you added no arguments to prove me wrong, just accusation in quotes. Ignore the truth, keep your head buried in the sand.