[NikolaNovak]

There are a LOT of air shows where military airplanes are a small or zero component.

I'm totally in agreement that armed forces are there for reasons you described. But an "air show" is a massive and sometimes separate Venn diagram. There are air shows where main thing is thousands of private airplanes coming from across the country to be together and meet up and have fun.

Put it other way, if armed forces decided it's not worth the recruitment investment and pulled out, air shows would still happen :). For most sizes air shows, the biplane aerobatic stunt done by a crazy local 50 year old real estate agent, is way more fun than the c5 galaxy transporter showing "short takeoff" :-)

[mlyle]

Yah.. the roaring sound and precision of military aerial display teams can't be denied, and are an awesome experience. But it's something you see someone doing in a Pitts or Extra or maybe even a Citabria or 150 that makes you question your understanding of the laws of physics :D

[NikolaNovak]

I love it when there is a little Cessna 150/152 with aerobatic designation even though it's engine cuts off when you go inverted (carburated design). The sheer pluck of those pilots! I was once given a Cessna 150 aerobatic experience as a birthday gift and the pilot was just cheerfully mad lol. He gave me the parachute, told me we are legally obliged to wear them, but not to worry about it too much - at heights and speeds and Gs we're at, they're absolutely useless. Gulp!

[ExoticPearTree]

It is not the same. Having a jet do a low pass is something that you will remember for a long time. Or having it go vertical with full after burners, especially close to sunset where you can see it better.

The other factor is showing how good you are: sure, you can do formation flying in an Extra 300 or a C150, but doing it in a fighter jet show precission and skill, because it will not forgive you as easy as a slower moving plane.

[NikolaNovak]

Let's recognize this is subjective :)

I've been to a few air shows and even f22 with its vector thrusting, is not (to me) as impressive as the little prop aerobatics doing things that make me (even with a bit of flight training) wonder how is that even possible :). They are typically closer & slower (so you can appreciate the action better), and just pack so much more stuff and maneuvers right there where you can see them - the density / bang for the buck is far greater. By necessity, military jets are fly bys - they zoom in, pull up and wheee go up fast, then they go away. Then 2 minutes later they zoom in, cross each other impressively closely, then they fly away for a bit. It's exciting and fun don't get me wrong, but when I plan my air show day, I plan it around cool little aerobatic planes, not the military jets.

YMMV :). But my point in this thread is:

1. Yes, absolutely, military is there for recruitment

2. Military recruitment flying is empathically not all there is to an air show to all the people, and there exist air shows with minimal to no armed force presence.

[mlyle]

> It is not the same.

I have seen so many military display teams. Yes, I like the roar. But they blur together.

> sure, you can do formation flying in an Extra 300 or a C150,

But that's not what we watch Extra 330s do. We watch them do other things that are nuts that are also not so easily forgiven. I have fond memories of seeing Patty Wagstaff, Sean Tucker, and Rob Holland (rip). (And before that, Amelia Reid in her 150...)

[MaciejR]

As an aerobatic pilot that owns an Extra and has flown with several fighter pilots, I can tell you flying an Extra requires a lot more talent than a fighter jet.

[ExoticPearTree]

Never got to do aerobatics, just “normal” flying.

I saw a RedBull race and was impressed about the agility of the pilots.

But I like jets more because they go faster. And they have afterburners. And they go vertical faster than any propeller plane will ever be able to. And the margin of error is smaller. Espcially closer to the ground.

[defrost]

Can't say I've seen a jet get under tree cover and muster cattle .. there's an exciting bit of air work.

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1zPmNwP8SQ

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esBEJbqPjDY etc.

[NikolaNovak]

Jets are faster and louder for sure.

The margins, that completely depends on the pilot and act design. You can make margins arbitrarily small at any speed :).

(As an imperfect example - a world rally car going through a 80kph blind corner over a crest on snow between the trees is not necessarily more of a margin / less of skill or spectacle than F1 taking a tarmac open corner at 200kph:)

[mlyle]

> (As an imperfect example - a world rally car going through a 80kph blind corner over a crest on snow between the trees is not necessarily more of a margin / less of skill or spectacle than F1 taking a tarmac open corner at 200kph:)

I think it's interesting how as humans we tend to sort into valuing one of these much more than the other, though.

I like the rally car and the aerobatic piston plane a lot.

I want to like F1 and the fast jets more... but after being initially blown away I get bored pretty quick. I think what they're doing is incredibly cool and I can appreciate it but...

But the dude upthread is the exact opposite.

[I do think you need to be more of a "car guy" to like rally and more of a "plane guy" to like what the little planes do. The stuff that is big and loud and fast is easier to appreciate. But I know plenty of people who really know their stuff that still prefer the big and loud and fast].

[bigyabai]

I'm surprised to see people say this. There are prop plane maneuvers that make the jet maneuvers look like chopped liver: https://youtu.be/Fue96WsySn0