[_nxwj]

> civilized man, who refused to adapt to his surroundings now finds he has to adapt and re-adapt every hour of the day to his self-created environment

This feeling is exactly what I've experienced. Like we can never sit down without the walls changing around you. I always have to be on my toes. Another key human distinction is being able to think into the future, where we sometimes get stuck.

[lotsofpulp]

> This feeling is exactly what I've experienced. Like we can never sit down without the walls changing around you. I always have to be on my toes.

That is basically how all animals live, either under threat from competitors or predators.

[Forgeties79]

Is that how we have to live?

[lotsofpulp]

Many/most people don’t, and haven’t for a very long time. Being afraid of losing one’s job is quite a step up from being afraid of a rival tribe ransacking your village. Or a predatory animal. Or bacterial infections.

Obviously, things could be better. But they could be much, much worse.

[ian_j_butler]

> Being afraid of losing one’s job is quite a step up from being afraid of a rival tribe ransacking your village. Or a predatory animal. Or bacterial infections. Obviously, things could be better. But they could be much, much worse.

If you talk to people, I think you'll find there are an increasing number who don't actually agree with your idea of worse. It's a question of comforts vs agency. Victims of slavery or displacement are not automatically happy just because the water is cleaner than where they started.

Things we cannot control are a risk in any world. If you must die, do you want it to be because of bad luck and natural causes, or because you're increasing someone's profit margins? Do you want to fight and perhaps die in an desperate battle with a deadly but essentially honest viking invader? Or do you want to live in a authoritarian system that's characterized by ignorance, misinformation, and disenfranchisement where any resistance to different kinds of faceless violence makes you the bad guy or the crazy one?

[lotsofpulp]

Those people are free to move to Afghanistan or Somalia or the Congo. I doubt they will.

> Do you want to fight and perhaps die in an desperate battle with a deadly but essentially honest viking invader?

No, real life is not a hero wish fulfillment movie.

[ian_j_butler]

> Those people are free to move to Afghanistan or Somalia or the Congo. I doubt they will.

This is barely relevant, because it's not a plan for agency or comfort, it's strictly worse in that it would destroy both, in addition to adding displacement and isolation.

> No, real life is not a hero wish fulfillment movie.

Frankly that's just projecting your cowardice onto everyone else. But there's a point where anyone will trade comfort for agency. Ready to lose access to modern dentistry if you don't ever have to worry about the coercive attention of the tax man? How about losing access to hot water if your vote is worth 1000x? No more scented soap if you can work on your schedule instead of the one the boss chooses?

By your logic, Ukraine would fold the first time the power went out. And there's a reason you can't just opt out of capitalism or citizenship, that land which is not used is still off limits everywhere, and so on. It's because probably a fifth of the population would take a very big hit in comfort to increase their agency

[umeshunni]

This has probably been true only in the last 300? 500? years. Before that, things were the same for 1000+ years for most of civilization, barring any large invasions from neighboring kingdoms, or some far away empire (mongols etc).

[petre]

> barring any large invasions from neighboring kingdoms, or some far away empire (mongols etc).

Russians? It's still true today.

[7bit]

What a load of bollocks, that can only be said by someone who clearly hasn't read a history book in his entire life ...