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by kenferry 28 days ago
Ok, but not what this article is about at all. Six figures is for undergrads. The issue here is that PIs don’t have the money to support graduate students, who are typically fully supported.
3 comments

> The issue here is that PIs don’t have the money to support graduate students

What happened to all the money the undergrads are paying?

Great question! Mostly it goes toward maintaining the campus and paying the admin folks. PIs are paid to teach, basically, and are expected to pull in the money to support their own research (and maintain their facilities and pay the admin folks).
It goes towards MIT’s endowment, which is valued at over $27B, and grew $3B last year.

There is no shortage of money.

> There is no shortage of money

This is a general theme in the last decade. There is a lot of money, but it is more and more ending up in the pockets of the extremely wealthy.

I'm really no communist, but we've reached a point where the system starts to crumble because of it.

It also can't be in the interest of the billionaires. They also want to live in a safe country and use working public infrastructure (roads, airports, air traffic control). They even need a functioning academic ecosystem if they want their children to receive a real education, not just access to a few famous professors they can buy.

Until last year, the share of wealth by the 1% had been basically flat at 31% for a decade

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WFRBST01134

Your expectations aren't matching reality

I am looking at your link and thinking I took crazy pills.

The graph shows just under 23% in 1989, going up past 27% by 1996, then dipping a few years later only to go up to 29% a bit before 2008, then another dip and rise to almost 32% today.

Am I misreading the graph? If not, the percentage of wealth owned by the 1% is on track to have increased 50% over ~40 years. (23% --> 34.5%)

You’ve got some copium in there. Why wouldn’t billionaires want a few famous professors they can buy to teach their children the same way Alexander the Great was taught by Aristotle.

You don’t have to share the education time for your kids with the poor and think of how exclusive and how much status is advertises.

As for everything else you said about it not being in the interest of the billionaires. Even if you are 100% correct they have enough money to pay someone else to deal with any frictions in life and not think about it.

On top of that, if you look at their behavior, there’s a lot of similarities between the wealthiest in society and how they treat money, and how addicts treat heroin. Addicts frequently engage in self destructive behavior for the next hit.

This is not true. Billionaires rely on public safety. To fly their private jets around the world they need ATC and airports. They need police, so angry people don't buy rockets and shoot their planes down.

They also want to chill at their pool, without hundreds of people outside rioting. They want to drive their sports cars somewhere.

They don't want to live their life in a zombie apocalypse shelter.

And how good will those bought professors be, if they didn't work at a good university?

Why wouldn't it be in the elite's interests? You're acting like we don't have an entire written history of elites throughout time immortal making terrible decisions that ended up killing 100s of millions of people from things like colonialism or slave trade or selling weapons of death.

There is no reason for billionaires to play nice with the public because they will never be held accountable under the current system.

You have to stop relying on their nonexistent "better angels" and actually start resisting and fighting back. Every single right or benefit that workers have gained was because they died fighting for it.

We have to continue this fight going forward because we're finding out that no one will save us except ourselves.

Perhaps you could clarify your view. Here is my understanding:

* The reason MIT has such a big endowment is because wealthy elites gave MIT money.

* The reason MIT is short on federal funds is because poorly educated voters (working-class) put their man in office.

Since you reflexively believe elites are the big bad, you should be happy with the new tax on big endowments like that of MIT. Soak the rich. Perhaps the endowment tax should go even higher. Power to the people.

Sound about right?

I agree with you to some point. I just wouldn't frame it in a Marxist way, working class vs. everyone else. It concerns nearly everyone, not just the working class. Limiting it to the working class, excludes many influential people who are more wealthy, far away from being billionaires, but still suffer from the current developments.

We've seen such cycles before. Elites getting too wealthy and influential, until they are stopped. Long ago it was feudalism. But even early capitalism had such an example with the Gilded Age in the US. After WW2 it probably reached the state of being mostly reversed, only to start redeveloping. Funnily enough the Gilded Age was ended by Republicans.

Almost none of that goes into research funding.

Researchers are funded largely by government grants.

someone has to pay for administrators!
> someone has to pay for administrators

Turns out, this is also research grant money. Half or more of every grant usually goes straight to the university.as "overhead."

The universities could change this so more finding went to researchers, but they have zero incentive to.

Much of that overhead is not going to admin salaries (although, as stated elsewhere in the discussion money is fungible) but covers things like the cost of buildings, labs, maintenance, etc.
I had no idea the on-going costs of physical things did not decrease over time, what an interesting thing to know. Here I thought that after you build the building and paid off the building, then for funsies also bought all the land surrounding the building, that at some point it would drastically cheaper to maintain it; but what you're saying makes so much sense!
You have clearly never owned a home. The older the building, the more maintenance it requires.
Same issue with grad school… the value isn’t there for this to make sense. Folks are better off just going right into them private sector.
The value absolutely is there. The NSF and NIH were both very cheap and have had huge ROI. The cuts to academic funding have been monumentally stupid.
Brass tacks, if an institution has an overwhelming political leaning toward faction X and works to undermine faction Y, is it really surprising that when Y gets into power it attempts to damage the institution? This is precisely why publicly funded institutions should maintain agnostic political posture.
What fantasy world do you live in? I want to be there, the world I'm everything granted to the public is always under constant attack and threatened to be destroyed and their proponents destroy and their benefactors humiliated.
How do you do this when belief in science, which is important to academic institutions, is unpopular with one faction?
When it no longer becomes science and becomes social. There are MANY examples, even in this thread, of this happening.
When and where did this happen before a year and half ago?
I mean, is it political when you write a paper that concludes that vaccines are effective or that fish die when streams are polluted?

The answer seems to have become "yes", so this is a rhetorical question, but ideally _information_ would be apolitical.

We also see the current administration politicizing things like the federal reserve, which has tried VERY hard to be apolitical.

Well there's absolutely the value in a lot of what those PI's teams are doing, what there is no longer is the political will to invest in those endeavors.

I think longer term this will mean we start to see a kind of "rise" of places like TUM and Tsinghua. (If that could even be seen as a "rise" at this point? Pretty sure most people already acknowledge their primacy.) At root, MIT was only MIT because of the teams it could collect together. If it can't do that anymore, I don't think people stop putting those teams together, those teams just stop being put together at MIT.

The search for fundamental clarity in humanity's great aporias will continue. Just a speedbump.

Do grad students make enough to live and make payments against the principal of their student loans? If not, then that's robbing Peter to pay Paul.